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Offline BoingoTopic starter

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Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24199#msg24199
« on: February 08, 2010, 03:20:32 am »
Aether decks have needed help for a while--it seems all the best additions are for other elements.  And while Lightning/Thunderbolt are fairly good for creature control, they are not on a par with RoF, otyugh, Eternity, drain life, etc.

I figure, make Lightning more like real lightning--give it some area of effect damage too.  Basically, it continues to do 5 damage to the target creature, but 3 damage to any adjacent creatures and 1 to every remaining creature on that side of the field.   Targeting opponent would deal 5 damage directly (unless reflective shield in place) and 1 damage to creatures.

Name: Lightning
Cost: 4  :aether
Deals 5 damage to the target, 3 damage to adjacent creatures and 1 damage to remaining allied creatures.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Upgraded: Thunderbolt
Cost: 2 :aether
Deals 5 damage to the target, 3 damage to adjacent creatures and 1 damage to remaining allied creatures.


Can somebody help me post the images?!?  I have *zero* image-altering skills.  This one really only need to change the text and the quanta cost.
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ScytherLoL

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24206#msg24206
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 03:48:42 am »
Ok so heres the artwork for you.

Just a bye note, these cards become very similar to Thunderstorm but they still stand alone and would be a brilliant addition.

Unupgraded Lightning


Upgraded Thunderbolt


I hope I have it alright.

Thanks for the cards

Scyther

Offline BoingoTopic starter

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24208#msg24208
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 03:53:41 am »
Thanks for the image help Scyther!  I literally could not have done it without you.  :)
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ScytherLoL

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24209#msg24209
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 03:58:17 am »
Anytime good luck with the cards and have fun.

Yours

Scyther

bobcamel

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24273#msg24273
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 02:36:28 pm »
No such thing as "adjacent" in this game. You can give "5 to target, 3 to 2 random enemy creatures and 1 to all other enemy creatures.".

Also, TOO LATE to submit those, and I really prefer my Thunderbolt when it is a very cheap way of dealing good 5 damage to a critter. Easily splashfueled.

Offline BoingoTopic starter

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24278#msg24278
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 03:47:31 pm »
No such thing as "adjacent" in this game. You can give "5 to target, 3 to 2 random enemy creatures and 1 to all other enemy creatures."
I suppose that'd be a reasonable alternative.  I have no idea what goes into coding this game, just something about playing it.  The adjacent part (if possible) would make target selection more tactical in certain situations.
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Delreich

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24302#msg24302
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 05:44:49 pm »
Defining what you mean by "adjacent" would be a start. And 2 :aether for that kind of damage is a bit low. 5/4 or 4/3 might be OK.

Offline BoingoTopic starter

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24318#msg24318
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 06:48:03 pm »
"Adjacent" seems to be causing a lot of trouble here.  I intended it to mean any card positioned next to the target card--border to border, or overlapping edges (as when partially behind/in front of target.)  Any creature card further away would get 1 damage.  This would NOT include immaterial/immortal creatures, but could include burrowed creatures since electricity runs into the ground (I hates me some shriekers/devourers.)

As for the cost, I understand the Delreich's sentiment but am not sure if it stands up to scrutiny.  Perhaps upping costs to 4/3 would be fair.  But let's compare the 4/2 proposal to other spell cards:

 :fire RoF: As originally posted, the new lightning would cost less than RoF (7/5) but RoF hits EVERY targetable creature with 3 damage.  Cannot be played directly against opponent.  Slight advantage to RoF here.
 :fire Fire bolt The new lightning would cost more than fire bolt (3/1) and fire bolt's damage ranges from 3-infinity to single creature and can be played directly against opponent.  No clear advantage here.
 :fire Rage potion costs less (3/3) and does 5/6 damage to a single creature.  Cannot target opponent and no area of effect, so advantage to lightning.

 :air Thunderstorm is cheaper (2/1) and hits every targetable creature with only 1 damage. Cannot be played against opponent.  New lightning would be stronger and more versatile, but twice as expensive. 
 :air Unstable gas:  I'll skip this one since it requires fire and does damage to creatures on both sides AND 20 to opponent.
Side note: I think air needs a new spell, and am working on an idea already, **see end of paragraph** but thunderstorm is one spell that I feel is clearly weaker than my proposed reworked lightning.  Not sure it's fair to put thunderstorm in air to begin with since you're most worried about the lightning and not the thunder anyway....
Twister/Tornado proposal: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,2901.0.html

 :darkness Drain life costs less (3/1) and does 2-infinity damage and can be played directly against opponent.  New lightning would have greater field of effect but as it has capped damage and does not restore life to player, so no decisive winner here either.

 :water Ice bolt is cheaper (3/1) and does 2-infinity damage and can be played directly against opponent.  Can also freeze creature.  Again, compare with drain life above but with freeze chance instead of restore life--so no clear winner imho.

 :gravity Gravity pull is cheaper (2/1) and indirectly can "do damage" up to the hp of creature.  This nearly always results in destruction of creature, no matter how many hp.  Cannot target opponent directly.  Maybe an advantage here to lightning, but not for removing dragons/high hp creatures.

 :death Plague costs the same (4/2) and does unlimited creature damage (till death), though only 1/turn.  Cannot target opponent.  Favor lightning for its instant damage, but for large armies of low hp creatures plague is probably your better spell.
 :death Poison costs less (1/2) and does 2-3 damage/turn to opponent directly.  Does not target creatures.  Again, you weigh instant vs continued damage:  lightning would do max 30 hp damage (if played all 6 cards) vs max 12-18 damage per turn.  There's a reason speed poison decks are so effective.  Advantage poison imho.

 :entropy Chaos seed is cheaper (1) and can do just about any of the above.  Hard to compare, but likely advantage lightning for its area of effect and ability to hit opponent directly.
 :entropy Mutation is cheaper (2) and can kill, create 5/5 abomination or new mutant.  Target selection plays a big part in the decision tree here (i.e., you're not likely to play mutation on a photon), but since mutation is totally random, lightning has advantage for definite damage, area of effect and ability to hit opponent directly.

Overall, I don't think 4/2 is too low a cost, but 4/3 wouldn't kill me either.  Aether cards have such a high cost to begin with I thought I'd cut aether users a break....
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bobcamel

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24319#msg24319
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 06:51:40 pm »
Quote
Aether cards have such a high cost to begin with I thought I'd cut aether users a break....
You mean, like, by taking their only 2 or 1 cost card that was an effective creature control card and raising its cost? Sort of... not what you intended, there.

Offline BoingoTopic starter

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Re: Existing card rework: Lightning/Thunderbolt https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2885.msg24329#msg24329
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 07:16:41 pm »
Quote
Aether cards have such a high cost to begin with I thought I'd cut aether users a break....
You mean, like, by taking their only 2 or 1 cost card that was an effective creature control card and raising its cost? Sort of... not what you intended, there.
Not sure if you've done the math, Bob:

Imagine 6 opposing creatures with 3 hp (horned frogs, blue crawlers, unburrowed shriekers, etc.)  To remove said creatures with existing aether cards, you need all 6 lightning cards to remove all 6, at a cost of 6-12  :aether .

With proposed modifications, you would only need 3 cards at most, at a cost of 6-12 :aether.  That's controlling costs, not on a cost/card basis but on a cost/effect basis.  Plus you have 3 cards to spare.
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anything
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