Community Card Design [Card Posted.]

[Zaealix]

Something that recently came up to my mind was
 : Delay this creture, target creature uses dive.
This could basically considered as an offensive version of Iridium Warden, which fits pretty good when considering that air is the oposite element of earth.

Why combine that with swift?
It puts a great big target on the (now delayed) creature. While swift would enable a first use, I doubt a second use will happen.

It depends on the resiliance of the creature OldTrees. Since we do not have stats for this creature made yet, technically speaking, we could very well grant it high HP. Part of the usefulness of Swift is that the ability can be used before CC can occur. However, that does not exclude the possibility of the creature having high HP as well. For example, with the exploding mechanic I thought of, I imagined the creature having relativly high stats, to prevent the Swift-sacrific from being the only viable function of the card. A card that effectively has only one use (flooding, purify, holy light,Preconition) would become a niche card, and very overloooked.

If it can protect creature(s) from CC with its ability then the player can choose between short and long lifespan or even in between. It also makes the opponent have to think before they prioritize their CC on the swift creature.

Dive target creature is an ability that can be removed entirely by using CC on the swift creature. Higher resilience from stats would only make swift more redundant IMHO.

So I agree that a card should have more than 1 use. I disagree on if Dive target creature and Swift have sufficient synergies to escape being a niche card.

Not necessarily. Something that should be considered: Depending on the type of CC you are using, you may not care that the creature has high HP. Fire excels at killing stuff, but it can only do so much against say, colossal dragons. On the other hand, Wardens can shut down any creature, assuming they are not hit themselves. We have to remember that CC does not always mean killing the creature. And for that matter, if Swift has to be used constantly to keep the creature alive, then it needs to have at the least, strong attack power to be worth keeping alive, otherwise you have essentially a one shot-buff-spell that may or may not, depending on the opponent's shield, do something. I think you covered this ground in your answer, I'm just repeating it so I can get used to this kinda thing.

[OldTrees]

@ Zaealix
The word more was significant otherwise I agree with your critique and do not suggest the activated ability be used as an upkeep.

1) Swift (or SoR for Time creatures) combined with an activated ability allows the user to act before the opponent.
2) The resulting creature should have varied tactical functions.
3) If different usages of the same activated ability changes the degree it is protected, then the ability could enable tactical choices.
4) If the creature has higher stat based defenses then the ability based defense will have less of an impact. This would make the options of the tactical choices more monotonous.

I think the ability should be able to partially protect a constant number of creatures (note plural) from CC.
Single target with duration or finite group of targets.

[TheManuz]

I always wanted to see opposing elements do something against each other.
Something like

: Antagonism - Target creature gains +1|0. If the creature element oppose opponent's mark, gains an additional +1|+2 (or something like that).

[Zaealix]

I always wanted to see opposing elements do something against each other.
Something like

: Antagonism - Target creature gains +1|0. If the creature element oppose opponent's mark, gains an additional +1|+2 (or something like that).

That's something that has been done to a degree with Holy Light|Holy Flash, and Flooding, as well as the new shards.

@ Zaealix
The word more was significant otherwise I agree with your critique and do not suggest the activated ability be used as an upkeep.

1) Swift (or SoR for Time creatures) combined with an activated ability allows the user to act before the opponent.
2) The resulting creature should have varied tactical functions.
3) If different usages of the same activated ability changes the degree it is protected, then the ability could enable tactical choices.
4) If the creature has higher stat based defenses then the ability based defense will have less of an impact. This would make the options of the tactical choices more monotonous.

I think the ability should be able to partially protect a constant number of creatures (note plural) from CC.
Single target with duration or finite group of targets.

I'm not sure I understand point number 3. Using the same power in different ways adjusts the amount of protection it gives?

[OldTrees]

@Zaealix
I was referring to targeting priorities.

Imagine you have 4 cards: Pharaoh (in play), Crimson Dragon (in play from fate egg), Anubis (in hand) and SoR (in hand). You play Anubis and use SoR on it. You know your opponent has sufficient CC to take out 1 creature per turn. You have a variety of options based on how you prioritize targets for the immortality skill. You could protect any of the 3 creatures. Your opponent can neutralize 1 per turn.

You\Them	ACP	APC	CAP	CPA	PAC	PCA
ACP	A,P	A,C	A,P	A,P	A,C	A,C
APC	A,P	A,C	A,P	A,P	A,C	A,C
CAP	C	C	C	C,A	C,A	C,A
CPA	C	C	C	C,A	C,A	C,A
PAC	P	P	P,A	P,A	P	P,A
PCA	P	P	P,A	P,A	P	P,A

Your and their targeting preferences are on the side and top. The body of the table is the order of creatures being immortalized. Notice the 3 main results (A,P), (P) and (P,A). They correspond to (slow and steady), (spell) and (mixture).

If this were expanded to 4 creatures (+Lava Golem) then you would see cases where Anubis survives for a bit without being immortalized like this.

You\Them	PLCA
PLCA	P,C

[Zaealix]

@Zaealix
I was referring to targeting priorities.

Imagine you have 4 cards: Pharaoh (in play), Crimson Dragon (in play from fate egg), Anubis (in hand) and SoR (in hand). You play Anubis and use SoR on it. You know your opponent has sufficient CC to take out 1 creature per turn. You have a variety of options based on how you prioritize targets for the immortality skill. You could protect any of the 3 creatures. Your opponent can neutralize 1 per turn.

You\Them	ACP	APC	CAP	CPA	PAC	PCA
ACP	A,P	A,C	A,P	A,P	A,C	A,C
APC	A,P	A,C	A,P	A,P	A,C	A,C
CAP	C	C	C	C,A	C,A	C,A
CPA	C	C	C	C,A	C,A	C,A
PAC	P	P	P,A	P,A	P	P,A
PCA	P	P	P,A	P,A	P	P,A

Your and their targeting preferences are on the side and top. The body of the table is the order of creatures being immortalized. Notice the 3 main results (A,P), (P) and (P,A). They correspond to (slow and steady), (spell) and (mixture).

If this were expanded to 4 creatures (+Lava Golem) then you would see cases where Anubis survives for a bit without being immortalized like this.

You\Them	PLCA
PLCA	P,C

Uhhh...Derp. that table is not making sense to me... I think ur saying this:
I has a pharoh out and a crimson out. I has anubis with SOR, which I play.
I can use SOR Anubis to protect two creatures, then my opponent goes and gets to kill one creature.
I protec( Crim/Phar) Anu dies, and thus cannot do any more protecting.
I ptotec (Crim/Anu) Pharoh dies, can't spawn scarbs.
I protect Anu/Phar) Crim dies, takes longer to kill opponent.
Is that what you are saying here?

[OldTrees]

Close. I have not sufficiently tested SoR. I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that it only acted like Swift. Assume the Anubis has Swift instead of SoR. So you chose 1 creature then they chose one. Repeat.

The table is not entirely complete.
Example case where you prefer CPA and the opponent wants to target ACP.
You can protect C. If you do you will lose A next turn and P the turn after that.
You can protect A. If you do you will lose C next turn but be able to salvage P.

Another case where the opponent wants to target CPLA and you want to protect CALP.
You could protect C, lose P, protect A and lose L.
However your opponent knows this so they could target A as their first target
You would protect C, lose A, lose P and lose L. (1 loss per turn)
Ah, but you know they know so you could protect A first
You would protect A, lose C, protect L and lose P.

Sometimes protecting 2 creatures will be worth more than saving a more preferred one. Sometime it will not. All this "I know you know" complexity shifts the opponent's target around providing protection.

[Zaealix]

  Alright then. Now that we have a decent idea of what swift should be usable like, we need to figure out what stats it should have. Anubis, going back to your example Oldtrees, is a high resiliance creature with a duo element ability that provides ultimate protection. That said, Anubis I think we can use as an 'upper' limit on the overall cost and power of our swift creature.
According to what you said, we want the swift creature to be able to reasonably have a chance of surviving without having to protect itself I think. With that in mind, I feel an HP of 4-6 is reasonable, it being high enough that most damage based CC will not kill it. As for the attack power, that is a trickier issue to balance. Too high, and the creature will be targeted regardless of whatever protection 'Swift' brings. Too low, and 'Swift' will be the only use for the creature, which, while useful, cuts down on it's potential, then again, do we want this creature to be a capable attacker in it's own right?

[OldTrees]

Alright then. Now that we have a decent idea of what swift should be usable like, we need to figure out what stats it should have. Anubis, going back to your example Oldtrees, is a high resiliance creature with a duo element ability that provides ultimate protection. That said, Anubis I think we can use as an 'upper' limit on the overall cost and power of our swift creature.
According to what you said, we want the swift creature to be able to reasonably have a chance of surviving without having to protect itself I think. With that in mind, I feel an HP of 4-6 is reasonable, it being high enough that most damage based CC will not kill it. As for the attack power, that is a trickier issue to balance. Too high, and the creature will be targeted regardless of whatever protection 'Swift' brings. Too low, and 'Swift' will be the only use for the creature, which, while useful, cuts down on it's potential, then again, do we want this creature to be a capable attacker in it's own right?

Umm
You do know that the creature has 2 abilities Swift[passive] and the buff[activated] right?
Creatures with skills can be there just for the skill (Chyrsaora)

Skill value, Casting Cost and Resilience should be decided before Attack.
Casting Cost should be decided after Skill value.

We need to decide what the activated buff is.

[Zaealix]

I suppose you are right, but in that case, perhaps the buff should have an offensive purpose as well. I was thinking something along the lines of my Wind Aura effect, perhaps with a temporary minor attack buff to make it useful against decks that do not utilize CC, but that opens a large amount of balancing issues when one considers cards such as Dune Scorpion.
The Wind aura is a buff that negates negative effects that the creature would be affected by. Although I had it as an  ability for thematically fitting with Swift, such a thing sounds more like  , since it is essentially armor, that protects the creature. Note that while a Wind aura would protect a creature from say, Permafrost Shield's freeziing effect, it would not affect the damage resistance portion of the shield. Also, if you were to cast BB on such a creature, it would gain +0|+20, but not be delayed for 6 turns, or if you were to cast Liquid Shadow on it, it would gain Vampire, but not be posioned.

[OldTrees]

The buff should not have a major offensive component. If it did the opponent would always target it first (forcing you to always target it first). However a minor offensive component would be a good idea.

[TheManuz]

The buff should not have a major offensive component. If it did the opponent would always target it first (forcing you to always target it first). However a minor offensive component would be a good idea.

How about regeneration counters? Like purify and poison for the player. We have poison and aflatoxin for creatures, but not regeneration.