Apotheosis, Divine Spirit, Divine Guardian, Divine Dragon

[Flayne]

Divine guardian imo is seriously overpowered and greatly overshadows voodoo especially with instant gravity pull and being immaterial. How can it be countered? you can't reverse time it, you don't even have a chance to stop it from getting gravity pull since it already has it, you can't lobo it. I understand about the immolation thing but still, with or without immaterial, its OP enough with gravity pull.  What isn't OP about Divine guardian?

[ZephyrPhantom]

Flayne mindgated me with the thought on overshadowing Voodoo Doll - generally VD's are best catapulted or Gravity Pulled. Divine Guardian basically is a stronger version of VD with just the Gravity Pull mechanic. It needs a different effect so it can be less redundant.

[Manipul8r]

For Divine Guardian, Gravity Pull would make sense but I don't know if that should be given to an 'Other' card.  Maybe it could absorb damage to other creatures you control, and move all poison counters on creatures you control to it each turn?  Could be 5|50 or something.  Another idea is for it to add to your maximum HP by a small amount each turn.

I posted this a while back.  No comments or responses?

As for countering Immaterial G-pull, poison ignores gravity pull I believe.

[Glitch]

6 spark, 6 cremation, 6 nova, 6 Apotheosis, 6 lava destroyer.

Laugh.

[Nepycros]

6 spark, 6 cremation, 6 nova, 6 Apotheosis, 6 lava destroyer.

Laugh.

Yes, because CLEARLY you're going to be getting Divine Spirits galore, but think of it this way:

You've got 1 Divine Spirit on the field, and 1 Lava Destroyer.

You've spent a spark, a cremation and 2 novas, as well as the 5 for the Lava Destroyer.

+5|+5 for 5 turns, costing 30 quanta to start with, and a recurring cost every turn... In the end, it only gets a total of 25|25 damage earned. Wanna do another Apotheosis? Rinse and repeat...

OH WAIT.

Lava Destroyer is a single creature. What happens when you use decks that focus damage on single CC? Well, your guess beats mine.

65 quanta for a deck that can have, at most, 6 damaging sources sounds like it can be countered fairly easily.

[Bloodshadow]

6 spark, 6 cremation, 6 nova, 6 Apotheosis, 6 lava destroyer.

Laugh.

To play an Apotheosis, you need 1 Nova (12 quanta) and 1 Cremation (20 quanta) along with a Spark. Playing all 6 requires all your Novas, Cremations, and Sparks, but then you won't have anything to sacrifice since you won't have the quanta to summon Golems. This deck of yours will have severe quanta problems, which means it's not nearly as overpowered as you think.

Also, what Nepycros said.

Thinking of another idea for Divine Guardian... Updated.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Nice use of the combo mechanic!

[RagingAlien]

AHA! so THIS was the whole discussion in the chat a few hours ago! nice!

[Bloodshadow]

AHA! so THIS was the whole discussion in the chat a few hours ago! nice!

Huh? What's this about?

[Manipul8r]

AHA! so THIS was the whole discussion in the chat a few hours ago! nice!

Sort of, it was about Undead Ninja (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18347.0.html) and my idea to remake it was for it to get stronger over time by gaining abilites (rather than rotating through them).

I like the Divine Guardian better now, but it still seems to overshadow the Dragon except in stall decks.

[Bloodshadow]

I like the Divine Guardian better now, but it still seems to overshadow the Dragon except in stall decks.

On average, Divine Guardian only deals 2/2.3 damage per turn, unless it ignites; it's better for healing and quanta denial. I suppose that Divine Guardian can be slightly faster than the Dragon if it ignites on its third turn (instant 20 damage), but if it doesn't then the Dragon would have already dealt 30 damage where the Guardian only did 26/27 (assuming it ignites on the sixth turn). In the long run, and it doesn't have to be stall, Divine Dragon is a far more powerful offensive creature than the Guardian.

[Manipul8r]

I like the Divine Guardian better now, but it still seems to overshadow the Dragon except in stall decks.

On average, Divine Guardian only deals 2/2.3 damage per turn, unless it ignites; it's better for healing and quanta denial. I suppose that Divine Guardian can be slightly faster than the Dragon if it ignites on its third turn (instant 20 damage), but if it doesn't then the Dragon would have already dealt 30 damage where the Guardian only did 26/27 (assuming it ignites on the sixth turn). In the long run, and it doesn't have to be stall, Divine Dragon is a far more powerful offensive creature than the Guardian.

Damage is easy, utility is not.  Guardian gives any deck healing, quanta denial, and Unstable Gas.  I'm not a fan of a divine being randomly exploding, but that aside, it heals an average of 2|2.3 per turn and denies 2|2.3 quanta per turn as well.  Although, in terms of damage, +3|+3 a turn from the Spirit is as good as the Dragon but it also has CC.  I'd rather have either of those much more often than I'd want a Dragon, I think.

What are some matchup examples other than stall versus stall that would make the Dragon more useful than the Guardian or Spirit?  I guess I also don't know how long an average game lasts.

I would suggest that the Dragon start with 2 ATK and have 2 less HP.