[Official] Graviton Mercenary | Graviton Guard

[ZephyrPhantom]

Semi-bump.

In the propose, an unuped Mercenary cost 3, and a pillar cost nothing, so total a 3 cost and 2 cards to put a 3/5 creature in the field and one PC.
An unuped Explosion cost 3 as well, and you still need to pay a 3/5 creature (which at least cost 3 while unuped) to make 2 cards same as Guard + pillar.
It is a 3 cost different.

An uped Raider cost 3, a tower cost -1 (gives you 1).
While an uped Explosion cost 2, and you still need to pay a 3/5 creature (Let say you use one 2 cost uped to do the same job) to make the two cards close to yours.
It is a 2 cost different.

(Well even the uped one cost 3, it still only cost 2 cost and 2 cards to being a creature and doing a PC.)

Even it prone to CC, they are still way too good.

Sorry for taking a while to respond to this, but I feel it's necessary to fully explain why I feel Smash is balanced:

While cost compensates for Mercenary, it still has to deal with limited options in the unupped front - not to mention it is also one turn slower, but Smash is only more advantageous for 2 | 1 turns as shown below:

Explosion wipes the pillars off the field permanently - that's 3 | 2 up front.
Graviton Guard / Merc costs 3 for 3 attack, so let's assume Smash is a 0 0 | 1 creature with Smash -and- the ability 'Swift' (this creature can its ability when played).
Smash always costs 1 for an immediate delay, so the cost difference is 2 | 1 if you win the game the turn you use Smash..
If you take another turn to win the game, you must pay a 2nd 1 . You now have spent 2 on Smash, so cost superiority is now 1 | 0.
If you take 2 more turns to win the game, you must pay a 3rd 1 . You now have spent 3 on Smash, so cost superiority is now 0 | -1 (you're become less efficient).
Overall : Unless you win the game within two | one turns of playing Guard/Mercenary, Explosion will end up better in the long run after the first 2 | 1 turns.
This does not begin to consider:
- You need to wait one turn to trigger Smash. vs. you can trigger Explosion at any time.
- Mercenary can never target pillars. Guard can never target certain cards like Hourglass, Graveyard, etc... vs. Explosion destroys any Permanent.
- CC kills a Guard and reactivates a permanent. vs. Explosion permanently deals with the card.

Even with the most basic denial example - 1 pillar vs. Explosion and 1 pillar vs. Guard, you'd lockdown with Explosion quicker since you need to only gather 3 in one turn (and fire has Immolation) while Guard has to gather 3 , wait one turn, and then Smash the pillar for 1 .

[Heric the Dark Lord]

I see a point to this buff, but If it gets smash, I believe the cost of mercenary would go way up. Reason? Use smash on a shield, you just coated your entire field in momentum. You smash a weapon, break several viable strategies. Break any other permanent through raider, even more strategies die, and remember you're allowed up to six.

I'd say, that if the mercenary gets a buff, it is that it becomes 3/6, 3/8 upgraded, OR a cost change of one. If smash was implemented, Gravity would be without a cheap basic creature.

[Naesala]

If smash was implemented, Gravity would be without a cheap basic creature.

Does Gravity -need- a cheap basic creature? Why? Vanilla is all fine and good but an UP card needs corrected.

[Heric the Dark Lord]

If smash was implemented, Gravity would be without a cheap basic creature.

Does Gravity -need- a cheap basic creature? Why? Vanilla is all fine and good but an UP card needs corrected.

Honestly, I think so. Why? Because cards with effects lack the power of a no effect card for their price. If it gains an effect, it becomes less powerful for the price another creature could have. These cheap, basic creatures form a strong foundation as cards that are reliable. Why is this? because they take less than most other cards of the alignment to play, and (Usually) have the strength to do well.

Like I said in the rest of that post, I do believe Grav guard should get an HP buff/cost decrease to make it less underpowered. but I Strongly believe it should stay effectless.

[Vangelios]

Z greetings again, I think a good suggestion smash, but its price is very cheap,
the ideal is  activation cost. also should work only for weapons and shields.

[furballdn]

I am against the idea of giving it an ability because I feel it changes the card completely. Why can't every element have at least one vanilla card besides dragons? I think cost/stats should be adjusted instead of changing the card completely.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I see a point to this buff, but If it gets smash, I believe the cost of mercenary would go way up. Reason? Use smash on a shield, you just coated your entire field in momentum. You smash a weapon, break several viable strategies. Break any other permanent through raider, even more strategies die, and remember you're allowed up to six.

Fair enough, I hadn't considered mass momentum. I will edit smash in the future to exclude shields.

I am against the idea of giving it an ability because I feel it changes the card completely. Why can't every element have at least one vanilla card besides dragons? I think cost/stats should be adjusted instead of changing the card completely.

My 2 cents on that:
- If Phase Spider came first in ETG and Spark came second in ETG -> Spider shouldn't have ability just to fill the Vanilla slot while Spark gets an ability to become more 'interesting'?
- All of Light's upgraded cards have abilities.
- There is always room for more cards in ETG.

[Cheesy111]

I see a point to this buff, but If it gets smash, I believe the cost of mercenary would go way up. Reason? Use smash on a shield, you just coated your entire field in momentum. You smash a weapon, break several viable strategies. Break any other permanent through raider, even more strategies die, and remember you're allowed up to six.

Fair enough, I hadn't considered mass momentum. I will edit smash in the future to exclude shields.

I am against the idea of giving it an ability because I feel it changes the card completely. Why can't every element have at least one vanilla card besides dragons? I think cost/stats should be adjusted instead of changing the card completely.

If Phase Spider came first in ETG and Spark came second in ETG -> Spider shouldn't have ability just to fill the Vanilla slot while Spark gets an ability to become more 'interesting'?

There is always room for more cards in ETG.

Also Fractal or Mitosis means mass PC.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I see a point to this buff, but If it gets smash, I believe the cost of mercenary would go way up. Reason? Use smash on a shield, you just coated your entire field in momentum. You smash a weapon, break several viable strategies. Break any other permanent through raider, even more strategies die, and remember you're allowed up to six.

Fair enough, I hadn't considered mass momentum. I will edit smash in the future to exclude shields.

I am against the idea of giving it an ability because I feel it changes the card completely. Why can't every element have at least one vanilla card besides dragons? I think cost/stats should be adjusted instead of changing the card completely.

If Phase Spider came first in ETG and Spark came second in ETG -> Spider shouldn't have ability just to fill the Vanilla slot while Spark gets an ability to become more 'interesting'?

There is always room for more cards in ETG.

Also Fractal or Mitosis means mass PC.

It also means mass maintenance for said PC that only becomes prevalent late game. Fractal + 3 Mercs is technically Cascade with four creatures plus a continuous 4 upkeep. Mitosis 3 Mercs removes "Drain all quanta" but trades it for 3 turns to match Fractal + 3 Mercs.

(For an ingame comparison, see my post regarding merc vs. explosion above this one, and add 9 + 1 card to Merc's. )

[Heric the Dark Lord]

I am against the idea of giving it an ability because I feel it changes the card completely. Why can't every element have at least one vanilla card besides dragons? I think cost/stats should be adjusted instead of changing the card completely.

My 2 cents on that:
- If Phase Spider came first in ETG and Spark came second in ETG -> Spider shouldn't have ability just to fill the Vanilla slot while Spark gets an ability to become more 'interesting'?
- All of Light's upgraded cards have abilities.
- There is always room for more cards in ETG.

1:They wouldn't have to remove the phase spiders ability now that there is spark. And Aether may very well be the exception to the idea of including, as you say, vanilla creatures, as Aether seems to in general like having ridiculous quanta cost.
2: That's all of Light's UPGRADED cards. The vanillas can feel free to gain an ability upon upgrade, but their ex-vanilla status leaves them as reliable cheap creatures, who now have effects combined with good power instead of increased power.
3:Yes. Yes there is. Grav guard seems like he'd be the Gravity vanilla card, though.

Fair enough, I hadn't considered mass momentum. I will edit smash in the future to exclude shields.

May be better, but I still disagree with giving him an ability. Also seems like something that would require a nerf/berf after given to remove the ability. I still say that making him a 3/6 or 3/7 would even things out.

[OldTrees]

Semi-bump.

In the propose, an unuped Mercenary cost 3, and a pillar cost nothing, so total a 3 cost and 2 cards to put a 3/5 creature in the field and one PC.
An unuped Explosion cost 3 as well, and you still need to pay a 3/5 creature (which at least cost 3 while unuped) to make 2 cards same as Guard + pillar.
It is a 3 cost different.

An uped Raider cost 3, a tower cost -1 (gives you 1).
While an uped Explosion cost 2, and you still need to pay a 3/5 creature (Let say you use one 2 cost uped to do the same job) to make the two cards close to yours.
It is a 2 cost different.

(Well even the uped one cost 3, it still only cost 2 cost and 2 cards to being a creature and doing a PC.)

Even it prone to CC, they are still way too good.

Sorry for taking a while to respond to this, but I feel it's necessary to fully explain why I feel Smash is balanced:

-snip-

Also consider:
1 quanta per turn for X turns is less expensive than X quanta now.
The ability to remove 1 turn from a permanent X times is more versatile than removing X turns from a permanent once.

[ZephyrPhantom]

1:They wouldn't have to remove the phase spiders ability now that there is spark. And Aether may very well be the exception to the idea of including, as you say, vanilla creatures, as Aether seems to in general like having ridiculous quanta cost.

Aether tends to get 'ridiculous quanta cost' due to it's useful effects (Parallel Universe) or Immortal Status (Phase Dragon and Immortal - consider that quint costs 4 by itself.) Some of Aether's cards are actually very cost efficient (notably, Phase Spider, Lightning, and Spark).

2: That's all of Light's UPGRADED cards. The vanillas can feel free to gain an ability upon upgrade, but their ex-vanilla status leaves them as reliable cheap creatures, who now have effects combined with good power instead of increased power.

My bad. I probably should've used a better example - all of Air's cards have abilities except for the dragon. (I doubt most Air cards at least balanced, save for Wyrm [Slightly UP due to bad ratio - I would consider Firefly and Dragonfly reliable cheap creatures though.]

Also consider:
1 quanta per turn for X turns is less expensive than X quanta now.
The ability to remove 1 turn from a permanent X times is more versatile than removing X turns from a permanent once.

Good point, since quanta generation was devalued with the buff to Dragonfly. Hadn't thought of that either. However isn't flexbility negated somewhat by limited timespan (guard cannot multilock like squid.)