Poll

Artist Task

Team Darkness
9 (9.4%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
13 (13.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
28 (29.2%)
Team Fire
20 (20.8%)
Team Expensive Clocks
16 (16.7%)
Team Surf Ninjas
10 (10.4%)

Total Members Voted: 64

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:52:30 am

Poll

Boss Task

Team Darkness
6 (7.1%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
13 (15.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
11 (13.1%)
Team Fire
15 (17.9%)
Team Expensive Clocks
25 (29.8%)
Team Surf Ninjas
14 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:51:00 am

Poll

Card Designer Task

Team Darkness
12 (13.8%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
25 (28.7%)
Team The Crusaderps
10 (11.5%)
Team Fire
15 (17.2%)
Team Expensive Clocks
12 (13.8%)
Team Surf Ninjas
13 (14.9%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:51:54 am

Poll

Deckbuilder Task

Team Darkness
8 (9.8%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
16 (19.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
8 (9.8%)
Team Fire
17 (20.7%)
Team Expensive Clocks
15 (18.3%)
Team Surf Ninjas
18 (22%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:53:21 am

Poll

Forum Expert Task

Team Darkness
9 (11.8%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
11 (14.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
9 (11.8%)
Team Fire
16 (21.1%)
Team Expensive Clocks
15 (19.7%)
Team Surf Ninjas
16 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:54:21 am

Poll

Off-Topicker Task

Team Darkness
12 (15.4%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
8 (10.3%)
Team The Crusaderps
10 (12.8%)
Team Fire
12 (15.4%)
Team Expensive Clocks
17 (21.8%)
Team Surf Ninjas
19 (24.4%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:55:40 am

Poll

Writer Task

Team Darkness
9 (12%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
18 (24%)
Team Fire
13 (17.3%)
Team Expensive Clocks
18 (24%)
Team Surf Ninjas
17 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:56:24 am

*Author

Offline Marsu

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1068567#msg1068567
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2013, 08:21:12 pm »
I like how my name wasn't in that last sentence.


We have already discussed the matter. Critiquing is fine, but we ask that players, especially "experts" like vrt and Oldtrees, not declare a "winner" in their critiques. We also ask that everyone try to keep their own opinion in consideration and not just go with what the experts say.

Hehe, I simply associate him with Brawl because I see him advertising it/answering questions considering it every day in chat. Oh, and I wasn't exactly sure how to write your name without looking it up. :p No hidden meaning in there.

So I guess I'll keep explaining my votes the way I did so far.

Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1068580#msg1068580
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2013, 08:45:12 pm »
Hehe, I simply associate him with Brawl because I see him advertising it/answering questions considering it every day in chat. Oh, and I wasn't exactly sure how to write your name without looking it up. :p No hidden meaning in there.

So I guess I'll keep explaining my votes the way I did so far.
That's alright :P Chap is in chat more, I can understand why he'd come to mind more.

The explaining is fine though as we said we'd prefer people in general don't post their "winners" (though, and meaning no offense, you aren't as influential as vrt for art)
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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1068885#msg1068885
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2013, 04:45:55 pm »
I have already heard support from 2 of my competitors (Anarook and Hyroen) I would like to hear if any of the others (Captain Scibra, Drake_XIV or Russiasnspy1234) have objections. I am willing to stay silent until after the voting phase if 2 of my competitors have objections.

Spoiler for support:
Why is it weird?
OT is the biggest name in CIA and his opinions are highly respected.
As far as I can tell - he was incredibly impartial in his evaluations and they were performed from an objective standpoint - then he gave his opinion based on that evaluation.
And don't tell me you don't look at other tasks in your section and go through the same thing mentally...
C'mon man =/
I'd personally rather leave the critiquing for the Card Designs left to the Idea Gurus whether past or present.

i dont mind
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Offline majofa

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1068903#msg1068903
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2013, 05:23:53 pm »
I'm fine with people giving critiques, however, as vrt is a judge, and is award bonus points... his critiques should come AFTER the voting phase, also stating which submissions he's giving bonus points to.

Offline Pella

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1068964#msg1068964
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2013, 08:12:42 pm »
I'm fine with people giving critiques, however, as vrt is a judge, and is award bonus points... his critiques should come AFTER the voting phase, also stating which submissions he's giving bonus points to.
^^^^^
Complete agreement, and not just because he's the Boss of my team.  The key here is that vrt's critiques are not merely friendly opinions posted for fun, but opinions that have an effect on the competition itself.
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Offline Pella

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069018#msg1069018
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2013, 11:33:11 pm »
Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Change 6:

Newbie PvP League & Newbie Weekly Tournament.

Newbie PvP League would be a league just for newbs. It is going to act like a normal PvP League, with the following differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* Some cards may be banned in certain cases. If, for example, Ghostmare becomes overused, then GotP or Nightmare may be banned (just an extreme example).

Newbie Weekly Tournament will be like the normal Weekly Tournament, but with the following newbie-friendly differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* An "upgraded" version of this tournament will occur after 5 weeks of normal unupgraded versions (like the normal Weekly Tournament). However, instead of allowing a full arsenal or upgrades, only up to 3 upgraded cards can be used at max and only a single rare/ultra-rare card (no matter if the rare/ultra-rare is upped or unupped).

The above are going to allow a newbie-friendly league and weekly tournament where only low-score, non-veteran players can participate, reducing experience and grinding to a minium.


Positives: More leagues & tournaments, more newbie friendly events.

Negatives: More work for League & Tournament organizers, it may be abused by people who are veterans but join the tournies/leagues as fake noobs and ruin the event.
We've seen many ideas lately for Newbie Tournaments.  This one blew me away.  +rep
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 11:34:43 pm by Pella »
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Offline majofa

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069048#msg1069048
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2013, 01:13:43 am »
Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Change 6:

Newbie PvP League & Newbie Weekly Tournament.

Newbie PvP League would be a league just for newbs. It is going to act like a normal PvP League, with the following differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* Some cards may be banned in certain cases. If, for example, Ghostmare becomes overused, then GotP or Nightmare may be banned (just an extreme example).

Newbie Weekly Tournament will be like the normal Weekly Tournament, but with the following newbie-friendly differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* An "upgraded" version of this tournament will occur after 5 weeks of normal unupgraded versions (like the normal Weekly Tournament). However, instead of allowing a full arsenal or upgrades, only up to 3 upgraded cards can be used at max and only a single rare/ultra-rare card (no matter if the rare/ultra-rare is upped or unupped).

The above are going to allow a newbie-friendly league and weekly tournament where only low-score, non-veteran players can participate, reducing experience and grinding to a minium.


Positives: More leagues & tournaments, more newbie friendly events.

Negatives: More work for League & Tournament organizers, it may be abused by people who are veterans but join the tournies/leagues as fake noobs and ruin the event.
We've seen many ideas lately for Newbie Tournaments.  This one blew me away.  +rep
Actually, in all practicality, it wouldn't work. With most FG grinders, players' scores stay low. This suggestion says nothing about a player being new.... just low score. The rules may be ok, but you'll have a few 'veterans' who are still in the <20,000 range.

Where is the less than 3 months on the forums?

Offline Pella

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069059#msg1069059
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2013, 01:27:59 am »
Less than 3 months on the forums =/= New to Elements, either.  What we discovered during an extensive discussion of this topic is that there is no perfect method for determining who is truly a newbie.  My favourite method is the one I proposed, which involves keeping track of who plays our PvP tournaments, and deciding that anyone who plays a certain number of tournaments (for example, 3) or places in the top 4 of any regular tourney has learned all they need to know and is ineligible for future newbie tourneys.

The +rep was more for the implementation of the tourney itself than for determining who gets in, or how, and especially for the newbie league idea, which I've never heard before.
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069061#msg1069061
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2013, 01:30:50 am »
I'm fine with people giving critiques, however, as vrt is a judge, and is award bonus points... his critiques should come AFTER the voting phase, also stating which submissions he's giving bonus points to.
^^^^^
Complete agreement, and not just because he's the Boss of my team.  The key here is that vrt's critiques are not merely friendly opinions posted for fun, but opinions that have an effect on the competition itself.
1) We have already said that there will be no claiming a "winner" and vrt has agreed to that. 2) We have already discussed and looked it over, and critiquing will be allowed during the voting stage by anyone so long as they don't declare a winner. We have heard both sides of the "Bias versus Intelligent voting" arguments and this is the compromise Chapuz and I have decided upon. Please move any further discussion to the feedback thread and we will consider changes to be made for Brawl #3.
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Offline justaburd

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069092#msg1069092
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2013, 03:43:22 am »
Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Change 6:

Newbie PvP League & Newbie Weekly Tournament.

Newbie PvP League would be a league just for newbs. It is going to act like a normal PvP League, with the following differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* Some cards may be banned in certain cases. If, for example, Ghostmare becomes overused, then GotP or Nightmare may be banned (just an extreme example).

Newbie Weekly Tournament will be like the normal Weekly Tournament, but with the following newbie-friendly differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* An "upgraded" version of this tournament will occur after 5 weeks of normal unupgraded versions (like the normal Weekly Tournament). However, instead of allowing a full arsenal or upgrades, only up to 3 upgraded cards can be used at max and only a single rare/ultra-rare card (no matter if the rare/ultra-rare is upped or unupped).

The above are going to allow a newbie-friendly league and weekly tournament where only low-score, non-veteran players can participate, reducing experience and grinding to a minium.


Positives: More leagues & tournaments, more newbie friendly events.

Negatives: More work for League & Tournament organizers, it may be abused by people who are veterans but join the tournies/leagues as fake noobs and ruin the event.
We've seen many ideas lately for Newbie Tournaments.  This one blew me away.  +rep
You DO realize that we've been having some trouble getting even 16 people to play in the REGULAR tourney, right? As in, it's not even 100% that we'll get 16 people to participate and therefore the tourney has to be moved to the next week. If you're restricting tourneys even further, you'll end up with only a couple of people participating (and barring more vet players from being able to join in on the fun.)
Chirp? *looks around*

Offline Pella

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069098#msg1069098
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2013, 04:04:36 am »
Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Change 6:

Newbie PvP League & Newbie Weekly Tournament.

Newbie PvP League would be a league just for newbs. It is going to act like a normal PvP League, with the following differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* Some cards may be banned in certain cases. If, for example, Ghostmare becomes overused, then GotP or Nightmare may be banned (just an extreme example).

Newbie Weekly Tournament will be like the normal Weekly Tournament, but with the following newbie-friendly differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* An "upgraded" version of this tournament will occur after 5 weeks of normal unupgraded versions (like the normal Weekly Tournament). However, instead of allowing a full arsenal or upgrades, only up to 3 upgraded cards can be used at max and only a single rare/ultra-rare card (no matter if the rare/ultra-rare is upped or unupped).

The above are going to allow a newbie-friendly league and weekly tournament where only low-score, non-veteran players can participate, reducing experience and grinding to a minium.


Positives: More leagues & tournaments, more newbie friendly events.

Negatives: More work for League & Tournament organizers, it may be abused by people who are veterans but join the tournies/leagues as fake noobs and ruin the event.
We've seen many ideas lately for Newbie Tournaments.  This one blew me away.  +rep
You DO realize that we've been having some trouble getting even 16 people to play in the REGULAR tourney, right? As in, it's not even 100% that we'll get 16 people to participate and therefore the tourney has to be moved to the next week. If you're restricting tourneys even further, you'll end up with only a couple of people participating (and barring more vet players from being able to join in on the fun.)
1) Newbie Tourneys would have different rules than regular ones (obviously), which means that maybe they would play with only 8, or maybe only 4.
2) We're talking about an idea which is based on other things happening first.  Those other things are designed to increase number and presence of Newbies everywhere in the Elements Community, including tourneys.
3) My understanding was that the proposed Newbie Tourney would be IN ADDITION to the regular tourney, not in place of it.  Apparently, you have a better understanding than I do.  That being the case, ignore everything I have said on the subject.  I am obviously a complete fraking idiot.  Thank you for bringing that fact to everyone's attention.
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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1069166#msg1069166
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2013, 09:12:15 am »
Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
Change 6:

Newbie PvP League & Newbie Weekly Tournament.

Newbie PvP League would be a league just for newbs. It is going to act like a normal PvP League, with the following differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* Some cards may be banned in certain cases. If, for example, Ghostmare becomes overused, then GotP or Nightmare may be banned (just an extreme example).

Newbie Weekly Tournament will be like the normal Weekly Tournament, but with the following newbie-friendly differences:

* Only cards obtainable at the bazaar can be used. This means no upgraded, rare or ultra-rare cards.

* Score of 20,000 or LESS.

* An "upgraded" version of this tournament will occur after 5 weeks of normal unupgraded versions (like the normal Weekly Tournament). However, instead of allowing a full arsenal or upgrades, only up to 3 upgraded cards can be used at max and only a single rare/ultra-rare card (no matter if the rare/ultra-rare is upped or unupped).

The above are going to allow a newbie-friendly league and weekly tournament where only low-score, non-veteran players can participate, reducing experience and grinding to a minium.


Positives: More leagues & tournaments, more newbie friendly events.

Negatives: More work for League & Tournament organizers, it may be abused by people who are veterans but join the tournies/leagues as fake noobs and ruin the event.
We've seen many ideas lately for Newbie Tournaments.  This one blew me away.  +rep

And a big +rep to Pella, because it needs "big balls" to support an opponent at Brawl and to openly +rep him/her, because you slightly advertise him/her that way.

About my suggestion, I already know the negative aspects of it and I've posted it along with the positive ones. I don't claim there won't be any veteran players joining them through the back door but you can never neutralize every single exploit or any skill difference. There are noobs who play EtG for years, noobs who keep their scores low due to FG farming, fake noobs who purposely lose against AI1 to keep their level low, CCG experts who may play EtG for a few days but understand it very deeply as well as noobs who recently found the game and its forums but have never played a card game before and lack the slightest strategical thinking.

 You can't prevent all those from joining a Newbie Tournament or League even if you limit score/posts by all means possible. However, you should take measures to prevent it as much as possible because of the following:
1) Psychological reasons.
 There are people who have a shy personality despite their skill. A PvP event who includes "Newbie" in its name attracts these people and lets them 'break the ice' that seperates them from the rest of the community.
2) Maximized secutiry.
 A security system is never perfect; does that means we have to completely discard any security systems we already have or could purchase? Sure, we may limit posts, score, activity etc. and still people to join with alternative accounts but would it be better if any veteran could join a Newbie-friendly event without restrictions? If yes, then we should discard any rules at any event, because 'any noob can spam 15 low-content post', 'any person who wants to cheat will cheat and never get caught anyway' and so 'why do we bother?'. I hope everyone here gets what I mean.

Disclaimer: The truth is I am not the first one who talked about neither Newbie Weekly Tournies or Newbie Leagues. I am quite sure this stuff has been suggested before. However, they lacked shape; those suggestions were vague and disorganised and, thanks to Forum Brawl, I was motivated to mix them up with my ideas and give them a proper format.
Brawl #1 team :time, Brawl #2 team :fire, Brawl #3 team Silver Ferns, Brawl #4,7,8 Brawlmaster
War #8 team :life, War #10,11,12 team :light, Brawl #6 team FROGS :life

 

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