Round 5 - Main Topic

[DrunkDestroyer]

Last round was definitely a come back, lets hope that we can grab that turnaround by the balls and keep right on going with this event!

The event card this time around is definitely difficult, Prisoner's Dilemma right here. One is better of the individual in most occasions, but the other works better if we trust the other teams to do the same. Since we get to pick a different one each time, we can pick the elements that we think will be honourable, and screw off the others. (Darkness can be included in the second category either way )
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33433.0.html

Our matches here have not been updated with out player order thread (I think), but I'll post them here to give a general idea of who we are playing and such

Gen. DrunkDestroyer vs  Valuka
Bloom vs Lt. Rastafla
BatCountry vs Gen. Kirchj33
Legit vs  PlayerOa
Lt. Pervepic vs  Lt. WizardCat

Matchups aren't looking like the easiest, but if we can take down a deck from each of these top teams (especially the ones they choose to play against us), we'll be in a pretty awesome position for when the teams start dropping like flies.

Decks for this round!!

Pervepic's Deck:

by DrunkDestroyer

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4vd 4vd 4vf 4vl 4vl 4vn 5og 5og 5on 5on 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u9 7mv 7mv 8pj

Bloom's Deck :

by DrunkDestroyer

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52r 52r 52r 52r 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 71a 71a 7n5 8pk

DD-s deck:

by DrunkDestroyer

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5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5pu 5pu 5ul 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5up 5up 5up 5uu 5uu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7td 7td 7td 8pt

Bat's deck:

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 595 595 595 5f6 5f9 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5of 5of 5og 5og 5ol 5p0 77g 7t9 80h 8pm

Legit's deck:

by DrunkDestroyer

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5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5of 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 620 620 620 7mv 7mv 7mv 8pu

by DrunkDestroyer

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vn 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5oi 5oi 5oi 745 745 745 8pj

by DrunkDestroyer

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4sa 4sa 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55t 55t 55t 58o 58o 590 590 590 590 595 595 595 595 595 595 5aa 5aa 5c1 5v0 5v0 5v0 6qq 6qq 77g 8pm

by DrunkDestroyer

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4vc 4vc 4vd 4vf 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vo 4vo 50u 50u 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5od 5of 5og 5oi 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 6u7 6u9 7mv 8pj

by DrunkDestroyer

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5f6 5f6 5f6 5f6 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5od 5od 5od 5od 5od 5of 5of 5of 5of 5of 5of 5og 5on 7mu 7mu 7mu 8po

by DrunkDestroyer

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4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 52g 52g 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 52r 718 718 718 8pk

by DrunkDestroyer

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vf 52h 560 595 595 5bt 5f2 5i7 5i7 5op 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rr 5rr 5rr 5ul 80d 80d 80d 8pu

Also, we have moved up, from 10th place to 5th equal, exact same placing as aether (who dominated last war until the very end), so good going team!

[Legit]

Betraying will always be the best option and I think we should betray on every single matchup.

I don't want to waste 10 minutes making a table so here goes:

First # = Us, second # = other team (+/- refers to the normal s/d which is +6 and -24)
Honorable
If both players fight with honor: 0 0
If the honorable player wins: -3 +3 (We lose 3 cards and opponent discards 3 less cards. Net -6).

Betray
If both players betray: -6 -6 (We lose 6 cards either way. Net -6).
If the betrayer wins: +3 -3 (We gain 3 cards and opponent discards 3 more. Net +6)

As you can see honorable is a net loss of -6 while betraying is a net loss of 0. I'm going to assume most teams will betray the majority of their matchups, so even though we will lose cards for betraying in reality we will lose the same amount if we choose honorable, and we might get lucky if someone chooses honorable.

[TuckingFypo]

Gen. DrunkDestroyer vs  Valuka
Robotocracy vs Lt. Rastafla
TuckingFypo vs Gen. Kirchj33
Legit vs  PlayerOa
Lt. Pervepic vs  Lt. WizardCat

The Round 5 thread says that BC should be playing against  and Bloom against  . :O

I agree that we should go Betrayal all the way.  IMO the only teams that would go Honor are probably the ones with a currently smaller vault, like  ,  , and  .

The Other Teams/Decks thread is laggy-ish. :l  Can we spam that thread until it gets to the next page so the deck images can load faster?  :p

[pervepic]

Seems that I can participate in this round normally. I'll update "other decks" later today.

Can anybody explain me what is this event card about? If no and this is just some sort of guessing game, then just give me "honour", because I have feeling that "betray" is picked by most of the players anyway and therefore it could have some advantages because of that (and you can pick whatever you want, of course).

Edit: oh I already saw an explanation. Seems that if a deck is very important to us and need to be preseved, then pick honor, otherwise, if others play something that we want from then and our deck is not very important, then betray. I'm gonna decide about my deck later.

[DrunkDestroyer]

I've fixed the matchups on the opening post now that kevkev has fixed them on the main topic.
(Lineup for next round will be different again - I'm not a fan of players only getting a few matches total, which seems to be happening a lot, especially in the teams below us)


Also: I am not seeing the advantage of betraying every time? I assume most other teams will too, but we /can/ arrange with other teams. Whether we can fully trust the other team is a different matter, but I personally think that some generals will hold to their word if they say they are going to honour. (If we make an Honour agreement with another team, then I intend to Honour the Honour agreement)
The only team I can really think which I would do this with might be though, and maybe . That is, before decks are put into consideration.


Also, if you want to spam the thread with one word so that everything moves onto the next page, go for it.
(I just thought of this now, but maybe in future rounds we should have instead 'Round Summaries', so one topic for all of that, then anything else important. Reduce lag, might help)




Pervepic has done an amazing job on the Other Teams (and their Decks) section, what I should have been doing all along really.

This is some very general speculation of my thoughts (its a little late - so please bear with me for any of my wrong-ness)


  . Earth got beaten last round by a deck which IMO beats most of theirs, and I would guess they are going to try to pack a deck that beats it routinely. Rewinds beat Mitosis, Adrenaline and Flying Weapon, so I would not be surprised if they took a deck similar to this:

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590 590 590 593 593 593 593 593 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5rm 5rm 5rm 5ro 5ro 5ro 77g 77g 77g 8ps

We are known to run pillar based decks, with quite a few dragons, so this deck is a pretty safe bet for them. (Does not mean they will run it, they have many options)
*Their other worry might even be the Blue Nymph deck which got so much attention this round, which has damage limited at 6x 20 w/ unupped immo


  . I've also been waiting for their Neurotoxin/Momentum deck to show up somewhere - so far it hasn't it seems. Against us they have played GotP Nightmare (Round 2) and an Entropy splash (rewinds, discords, GotPs Dragons)
Not a single winning deck this round did not have Rewinds/Eternity, which isn't too great on our side.

 
It really sucks that we can't know whether they have another Pandebonium. Their card count is at 387, we might be able to estimate based on their winning decks and such, but thats the closest we will probably get :/


Now, the stall options we have (for and I assume) are as below - unmodded from last round

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5f9 5od 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5p0 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 7oe 7oe 7oe 80g 80g 80g 8pu

by DrunkDestroyer

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5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5lm 5lm 5lm 5oi 5oi 5oi 5on 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7k2 7k2 7n5 7n5 7n5 7n5 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pq

and, we could build a decent entropy stall IMO, with Pandemonium, Antimatter and Discord salvages (as well as a few spares in our vault, and the Dragon from the OTK)

*However, that would get rid of the opportunity to rebuild a grabbow, if we wanted one.

[Bloom]

Maybe something like this against . Im expecting another Discord/BH deck. The deflags will take care of any discords that aren't flown, and those that are can be shockwaved or EE'd.

This was the deck I meant to put up

by Bloom

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For DD against  most likely will be GotP with rewinds.

by Bloom

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Ill try to put up some more ideas later today or tomorrow.

[Legit]

Maybe something like this against . Im expecting another Discord/BH deck. The deflags will take care of any discords that aren't flown, and those that are can be shockwaved or EE'd.

by Legit

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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 713 713 74f 74f 77g 77g 7ah 7dm 7dq 7gv 7ju 7n8 7n8 7q5 7t9 7t9 80b 8pj

Great deck choice. I agree this can beat everything Entropy can send at us.

If we think a team is going to stall, here's something we can use: (Salvage chimera + sky blitz from UW) Originally I had thought to use this against Time (Upgrade damselflys to counter Rewind and lower opponent's health until OTK), but it may be too predictable and I fear Dune Scorps, which is a likely deck to use against us.

Depending on the opponent, damselflys may help. Either upgrade the Dragons and add more CC like Owl's Eyes. This is a risky deck no matter what but the more I think about it, it may work against Earth.

by Legit

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560 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5od 5od 5od 5od 5of 5of 5of 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5op 7mt 7mv 7mv 7mv 8pl

vs Darkness: (Salvage 3 gravity pends + chargers from gravity) Quanta balance is funky, but general idea is BH vs grabbow, Owl's Eye for CC, and creatures for rush.

by Legit

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55l 55l 55l 55v 576 576 576 5oc 5oc 5of 5of 5of 5of 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 745 745 74f 8pl

[TuckingFypo]

Maybe something like this against . Im expecting another Discord/BH deck. The deflags will take care of any discords that aren't flown, and those that are can be shockwaved or EE'd.

by TuckingFypo

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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 713 713 74f 74f 77g 77g 7ah 7dm 7dq 7gv 7ju 7n8 7n8 7q5 7t9 7t9 80b 8pj

Heh.  If we could actually run that, that'd be cool. 

I'm pretty sure that  has another Pandebonium.  But we did just beat one R4, will they use it again?

How about a variation of the Nymph deck against  ?  It has enough defense for Graboids or Dragons.    has used Pulvy's but their past decks that used it so far don't seem to be incredibly reliant on it:

by TuckingFypo

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52o 58o 58o 58o 58v 58v 58v 590 590 590 590 590 590 595 595 595 5ia 5og 5v1 61q 778 778 778 8pl

by TuckingFypo

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58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58r 58r 58u 58v 58v 58v 595 595 595 595 595 5aa 77a 77a 77a 77a 77a 77a 8pl

Arhahagh, they apparently also have Deflags.  I doubt either is enough to stop both the shields and UG's though.

[DrunkDestroyer]

Entropy has lost two pandeboniums in the course of War.
But with their vault and planning, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to put the salvages of those two together, with some bonuses and make another one.
*For some reason, I don't think they would run it this round either - save if as a fall back for later, especially since they would think noone is expecting it.

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 590 590 590 595 5c1 5oc 5oc 5oc 5of 5og 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 74f 77g 77g 8pm

Pretty sure this would check out, and we could build it (at the cost of other decks) - which I'm pretty sure is what you're showing there Bloom?
-I'm not a great deckbuilder, the deck above is a little bad due to me never working with novas or graboids out of choice
another option is the entropy stall. (Pands should be upped)

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4vd 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vo 4vo 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 50u 5od 5od 5of 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 8pj

Lots of different cards we can put in here to tailor it to what we expect, with salvages from antimatter/discord/pandemonium/one dragon/all our spares in vault and entropy saves

- also, maxwells is awesome with OEs and pandemoniums, while BEs can Lobo
Now, something which is confusing me with the vault - the S/D page is still showing the round 3. I never did this before, does it have to be manually updated with the decks we played or should those be carried over automatically from the Deck Compliance tool once the round ends?

[TuckingFypo]

From what I can tell, I think kevkev updates it manually.  I never had to change the Round number.  Maybe we should PM him (also about that Bone Pillar too... :l).

[pervepic]

Just for reminding, what it is possible to make:

Old decks:

1.  duo with Dim Shields. Either with a Spiders and Wings, Quint, Nymph and Immo or without them.
2.  deck with Deflags and Nymph or without them.
3.  duo
4.  duo, if we save some entropy cards from this deck

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and add something from there

by Pervepic

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vn 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5oi 5oi 5oi 745 745 745 8pj

5.  Black Hole deck. I think that there is no need to take additional  cards
6. Adrenaline Staves
7.  duo with Crusaders, Sancs and Miracles

Possible new decks:

8. Certainly a Poison deck, because we have unused  Spiders in the Vault. And Poison may be taken from here:

by Pervepic

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4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 52g 52g 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 52r 718 718 718 8pk

. If we won't choose that, then there is additional material for  duo.

9. A new Novabow, probably with Graboids. From those decks:

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vn 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5oi 5oi 5oi 745 745 745 8pj

by Pervepic

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4sa 4sa 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55t 55t 55t 58o 58o 590 590 590 590 595 595 595 595 595 595 5aa 5aa 5c1 5v0 5v0 5v0 6qq 6qq 77g 8pm

by Pervepic

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vf 52h 560 595 595 5bt 5f2 5i7 5i7 5op 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rr 5rr 5rr 5ul 80d 80d 80d 8pu

Some of them seem to exclude each other. If we want to make a Grabix, then it's hard to keep  duo and if we want to use a lot of Pandemonium, then we can't have Poison etc.

Thinking about opponents.

  No doubt that  duo is still the best there (upped Vamps, Wyrms, Wings!), but the problem is that it is probably expected. Could they have something that could beat our  duo and get rid of the Wings (they usually use non-airborne critters) at the same time? Not sure, but something like Crusader-Eternity would be a pain for us.

[kev]

Thank you for reporting that the round number hadn’t been updated.  It was actually a problem with the script and I’m glad nobody tried to correct it themselves.  Everything should be up-to-date now.

As has already been pointed out, there are -1 Bone Pillars in your current vault.  During sdcp for this round (now) please just give yourself a penalty of -1 Bone Pillars and +1 some other card to correct the problem.

As always, feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.