BEFORE ROUND1Welcome to Team Air's private discussion!
Might be better to ping me in etg chat first - Burd
^ What he said - El
here daily 1900- 2300 GMT - annamall
Official team nicknames and titanpad colors:
Burd - blood....
kev - purple
Jen - Orangealicious!
Bloom - green
maul - blue
elbow - Mellow Yellow
War rules:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,44978.0.htmlVault building rules:
- max 18 per card from your element (restriction doesn't apply to Pills or Pends)
- max 9 per card from other elements (restriction doesn't apply to Pills or Pends)
War 6 Gdoc?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApSnrYYX17cDdGRfWmFObng5Y0liYklyc0RrT1dXbHc#gid=1anyone can help out filling this in.
standard test should be 1000 xenogames, odd results tested in trainer and noted.
BUILD 1 NT DECK FOR EACH ELEMENT TO BE TESTED AGAINST
6 Reverse Time - because splashing this is awesome
2 Silence - although this might be able to be fit into the Strat Deck list
2 Acceleration - because I like the alternative for the Flying Titan deck
2 Reflective Shield - because we have other means of beating Firestall
Deck List:
1) Bone Air -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z452oz152qz152rz35ohz35onzA5pu71az171b8pk2) Flying Titans -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z555sz1561z25ogz45oizA5pu74hz17mu8pl3) Grabbow -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=4vhz54vj55qz25905c1z75ocz15ogz35om61q71a77g7n58pmImportant note about the grabbow: xeno's simulator is currently showing grabbow's winrate at equal or lower than ghostmare in most cases. I'm not sure if this is due to AI limits, or the deck itself.i think there is a bug with momentum or GP in xenotester...not sure which one
4) Dim Fractalagons -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z25odz35ofzB5puz461rz461tz3622z27mt8pu5) Shadow Dragons -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z85ocz35ofz15ogz45puz35up5urz35uuz35v2z17mv7tb8pt6) Light Stall -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z55lmz35ocz25ogz55ohz35olz25onzB5puz27k28pq7) Hurricane -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z15i6z15i7z35ibz55ie5ocz15ofz15ogz15olz35onz95pu7muz17oe8pp8) 2nd Bone Air (prolly Arse version) -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z452oz152qz152rz35ohz35onzA5pu71az171b8pkAbove gives us 251 cards
99 off element
76 in element
76 pillars/pends
Dragonfly 6
Wyrm 3
Dragon 12
Fog 10
Thunderstorm 14
Flying Weapon 5
Owl's Eye 7
Unstable Gas 4
Shockwave 15
Looking at this list, I realize that we don't actually have nymphs in here. I know it would give me some peace of mind to know that we can nymph on demand (sort of)
LAST YEAR'S VAULT
Wind Pillar -- -- -- -- -- 31
Air Pendulum 64
Dragonfly 12
Wyrm
Azure Dragon 12
Fog Shield 9
Thunderstorm
Flying Weapon 9
Firefly Queen
Firefly
Unstable Gas 9
Shockwave 9
Wings 7
Sky Blitz
Owl's Eye 9
Blue Nymph
Air Mark
that might be premature. unless we're close to 18. meh. good to know, i guess.
That feels really light on in element cards to me
Cards just fill decks. If we have the right deckbuilds... meh.
I think Mall is right - another break deck is likely beneficial - Fire/Air deck? Only other one I remember seeing us build was my birdies deck. Which wasn't pretty but might get the job done. Am I missing any? Bolt-Control wasn't Jen's finest work imo. I think we have enough control. Yeah, that's not really a break. A UG deck then?
I had an NT trio -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z25f6z55giz55igz15ocz35ohz25ooz25puz17ms7oe8ppkev's 2 Nymph Deck
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z25giz15p0zE5puz561tz2621z17n58pu <-- uses dims
Burd's Bolt Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z55f4z55f9z25ohz15p0z95puz27ds8poNote: haven't really tested my own version. I did, a bit. It's more like a rush/control hybrid.
Burd's Gravy Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z155uz55f0z15f9z75ocz15odz15olz55omz274e8plI think that's a mod of my gravy version.
We really COULD take another Flying Titan deck if we feel we need another break. I don't love doubling up on decks, ftr. But I guess I'd rather take 3 awesome decks to War than 12 bad ones.
Since we're looking at fire, rage elixer voodoos? It's noteworthy that Team Dark and Team Fire don't even use that.
I think it's a good idea to consider the possibilities.
Or maybe steamies? you sure love your trios Hey, they can work decently. Steamies are definitely hard to kill when upped.
Steamies should be upped as a priority I think.
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z25f0z35fbz45giz95ocz25omz15p0z27h28ppWhen you think of breaking a stall, which cards are we looking to overcome?
Typically some sort of shield, like permafrost/diamond, plus sanc heals or such. Likely pretty heavy cc
Stall is formed from 3 components - often only 2 of them - damage reduction / healing / control cards. Aye. And nearly all have healing as one of the 3. We don't see much damage reduc + control cards. On that note I might put our fractal deck in the break category in a way. We can't otk, i think, but... you know.
Rol/Hope
Our current Rush Decks: Grabbow, flying titans, hurricane
Our Break Decks right now will likely be Fractalagons - Flying Titans
Our current Stall Decks: bonair #1, #2, light stall,
Our current Dom Decks: bonair #2, hurricane, darkduo
I don't hate taking another Break. But count our rushes atm.
How do you categorize d/bh (stall) and ghostmare (control)?
9a) Immo -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=5f6z55f9z15faz25fcz45odz25omz55pu5urz17ds7mt8po9b) D/BH (kev's version) -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z34vlz455kz555vz25ocz35od5ofz35puz27mu8pj9c) Ghostmare -
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z25oc5ofz15olz25onz65puz55ruz45v1z46068psOther cards we want sitting in the vault:
2 Silence, 2 Accels, 4 Wings, 2 Reflective Shield, 2 Purify
We may want to consider bringing the quanta sources to play 2 poor man's grabbows
pande, plague, firestorm, tstorm, dessication <- not war legal
Of those, I think we'll see pande and firestorm. probably not plague or tstorm.
on top of that, we're still affected by shields:
skull, thorn carapace, fire shield, permafrost(sort of), fog/dusk, procrastination, dims
so we'd definitely need the steals if it's with cloak
Ghostmare:
Original Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z25oc5ofz15olz25onz65puz55ruz45v1z46068psEternity Versions:
-2 air pillars+3 air pends+1 eternity:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=5oc5ofz15olz25onz95pu5roz55ruz45v1z46068ps-1 air pillar, -1 ghost +1 air pend +1 eternity:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z15oc5ofz15olz25onz75pu5roz45ruz45v1z46068psFor the ghostmare, would it be better to have tstorms?no much def to make them very usefull, an eternity or 2 though I'll see about fitting in an eternity
I agree - Tstorm won't get kills by itself, we need one shot creature removal - the Nightmare lock will take care of the rest. I'm not sure Eternity is worth trying to swing - hurts time quanta, and OE fills the same role
Let me try to fit it in and then we can argue it
- kki dont believe is fitable without major re-building
A problem i forsee for this deck is in the 2nd game of the bo5, they would know to hold back cards, minimize NM use still locks down draws each NM
Bonair: kev, Jen, Bloom, Maul all have versions. Burd voted for kev's version. Elbow's input requested. If we take two versions we'll prolly do one kev, one OE-heavy.
Flying Titan: use kev's version -1 FW +1 Fog. Try to wiggle 2 accels and 2 Wings as had burd's 2/2 split version.
grabbow: use last War's version
Shadow Dragons: somewhere in between kev's version and Jen's strategist version is good.
Light Stall: Work in progress
Hurricane
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z15i7z35ibz55ie5ocz15ofz15ogz15olz35onz95pu7muz17oe8ppLight Stall
Jen's Tstorm mod:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z55lmz35ocz25ogz55ohz25oiz35olzB5puz27k28pqkev's deckouter:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=5l85lgz55lm5mqz25ogz35ohz25olz35onzE5puz27k28pqHaving Play tested the deck against Antagon's Grabbow and PU-Life Dragons, I no longer see a need for the AW's in the deck. I'd much rather kill everything and play for deck out.
Here's my version of the Toucan's deck out deck:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z55lmz35ocz25ogz55ohz35olz25onzB5puz27k28pqNote: its probably worth including a couple Reflective Shields in the vault to mod this deck if needed.
Flying Titans builds
kev's:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z555sz1561z15ogz55oizA5pu74hz17mu8pl-1AW +1wyrm? +1 fog instead?
burd's 2/2 split:
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z555s5615oez15ogz45oiz15oozA5pu74hz174i8plNovabow Comparison via Xeno's Tool
Jen's 3SN Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z24vjz24vlz15905c1z75ocz15ofz45om5rk5up61qz26u38pj11.9ttw @ 70% win rate
last War's nova Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=4vhz54vj55qz25905c1z75ocz15ogz35om61q71a77g7n58pm11.2ttw @ 73% win rate
Bloom's 3SN Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/?deck=z24vjz24vl52l55v5935ifz75ocz15ofz45om5rk5upz26u38pj12.6ttw @ 73% win rate
Bone Bolt Comparison via Xeno's Tool
kev's Arsenic Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/cache/z452oz152qz152rz35ohz35onz95pu71az171b8pk.jpg13.23ttw @ 81% win rate
Jen's Combo Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/cache/z352oz352rz35ocz35oiz25olz75puz171a7n58pk.jpg12.28ttw @ 78% win rate
Bloom's OE Version
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/deck/cache/z552oz152rz25ocz35oiz45olz65puz271b8pk.jpg13.08ttw @ 70% win rate
Mall's Version
http://elements.alanbeam.net/qi.php?deckCode=52o+52o+52o+52o+52o+52o+52r+52r+52r+52r+52r+5oh+5oh+5oh+5oh+5oh+5oh+5ol+5ol+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+8pk&showImage=114.96ttw @ 72% win rate
Question: Who are we facing, or rather, who do we expect to use these decks against?
the hope is to use them against either rush or control decks - rush decks die to our control - most control decks will have lots of dead cards - hopefully giving us enough effect to get the win.
Question: Which deck would stand the best chance against a novabow?
Question: Which deck would stand the best chance against EQ? Kev's deck I think
Question: Which deck would stand the best chance against a generic sancstall?
I.E. Let's say we predict wrong. Which deck would, in the current war meta, do best?
I'm liking kev's deck the most.
By the way, we need a RT deck. just sayin'. need is too strong a word - we only have so much room in the vault - but I too like the idea of having one. Actually maybe not the deck itself but some RT would be enough.
fractal damseldragons
http://elements.alanbeam.net/qi.php?deckCode=5od+5od+5od+5of+5of+5of+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+5pu+61t+61t+61t+61t+61t+622+622+622+622+7mt+7mt+7mt+8pu&showImage=1wyrm: 3 damage, 12 adren, 15 dive+adren
upped wyrm: 5 damage, 11 adren, 10+4+2=16 dive+adren
stuff i must not forget
team air secret section
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,507.0.htmlxenotester
http://elementscommunity.org/tools/xenocidius/simulator/QI calculator
http://elements.alanbeam.net/qi.phpWar 6 Gdoc?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApSnrYYX17cDdGRfWmFObng5Y0liYklyc0RrT1dXbHc#gid=1If you all agree I intent in working a similar sheet for this war. Plz add decks that our opponents might bring or our decks that need some testing.
I don't understand this sheet - could you please explain it? vertical column is typical+used decks by our opponents in previous wars. horizontal columns are for our decks to be tested. i run a xenotest for 1000 games and "odd" results play tested
NOTES TO SELF
Impossible to make a strat's bow. All duos can be viable strats decks (If you use 18 Air cards - the strat bow is possible - not sure if you can get one worth using that uses 18 Air cards however) of the 18 rainbow 6 has to be novas that leaves 6 per deck rainbow which is meh
all pill ttw test deck: 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 8pn
strats decks need VERY precise Q balance
Vault ideas
333 cards -36 for 5 lazy ass donkeys = 297 cards in vault
8 decks (1 stall included)=7x30+40=250ish cards
40ish spare cards for modding decks and spare in element cards
1 rush
1 stall
3-4 domins
1 antabow style airbow
1 dim deck
Random ideas
pack gravity shields...NT's will bring some pain suppose wings wil be as good
OE +tstorm stomps even most drags
Many of us have at least 2 nymphs of a type. Perhaps we can choose to use that.
Duo ideas
Aether - PU Wyrms (~7ttw), Dims + quint nymphs tests nicely, ubershieldfail: dims + wings
Why not consider a splash duo with just lightning+damage?
Dark - the most versatile duo we can make imo
Death - my vote is for air- bonebolt
Earth - Kev's "Anti-Team Fire" should do nicely
Entropy - entropy domin is nice but i dont seem to remember why we did not use it more and had so few discords
Fire - need to duo here to use defl+pheonix immo please..fire/air sucks without UG, immo gets roflstomped by any control.
Gravy - flying titans (~7ttw)
Life - I thought this was going to be FFQ? Poor ffq.
Light - sanc stall with AW OE is a beast
Time - if we dont pack it in vault now, soon there is going to be one due to many ghostmares/ghostals we are hopefully going to beat I would not send ghostmare/ghostals against air simply because of wing shield. There are easier targets.
Water - Toadfish/Arctic Squid
What did we do right last war
good split in stall/rush/domin/break
I would like to think our decks were not greatly expected
decent to good mindgating (thanks to root and jenk...had nothing to do with it)
lotsa LOTSA testing and trusting the gdoc
covered our weakness in PC (used of bypass breaks) and midhitters, and ticking dmg (damsels) and hard hitters (drags)
Never used a mono unless forced to
What we did wrong last war
Started with a low amount of in element creatures, often had more out of element cards than we needed. Also there were very few chances to salvage air stuff, which I expect to see again. Due to all those we were on a winning streak but struggling for in element hitters
played event cards very badly, lost to assasins, salvager (me) started derping. In short we did not use roles and event cards very well. Agreed. Super important to be on top of this for War 6.
I am not sure but support team did not do very well
too many domins in starting vault, maybe not sure
Things that might help this time around
find a good use of fractal. OP card that does not like us very much
find a good use for NT, find a good use to counter NT. I expect this to be used by every team
plan well the funky role with the sideboard
Is thunderstorm worth packing in vault? can it be our in-element anti fractal? along with NM?
