War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion)

[mathman101]

i hate draft. If i want player A and B, and i make high bids on both in R1 draft, i'll only get one of them and may lose the other player to a Gen, even if that gen bid less than me. If draft is changed and if the highest bid for B is by me, then i get first dibs on him, regardless if i already have a player that round, then i wouldnt mind supporitng it.

That sort of draft is exactly what I’ve proposed multiple times in this thread and the S&F thread over the past year. It’s fair, strategic, alots appropriate value for all players, and it takes hardly any time.

The only reason auction is being considered right now is because the current draft rules make little sense. Just fix the draft rules and everything will be as it should... except WMs still haven’t nerfed monoair sofree or gotten rid of market prices. What’s the point in having a S&F thread if nothing is done about the big issues that plague this event repeatedly?

@WMs would you consider this?

From the WMs understanding of discussion in this thread regarding draft, the one round draft that we have been currently discussing in regards to editing in place of the current draft. Hopefully this is more appropriate to what is being asked for here.

Please let us know if we have misunderstood what is being asked for, but this is what we have been discussing, and what we would change it to:

Spoiler for Hidden:

1 round of about 48 hours
Gens bid at once, sending in a list for all the people they would like to bid on.
Additionally Gens state with their bid lists the amount of players they want for their team, 2 or 3.
Gens list a price planned along with each player.
The list must be ordered numerically descending with the highest price at the top.
Gens may list as few or as many players they want, but if they do not win enough of their bids, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly.
If Generals want a total of more players then are available, those bidding the highest for their 3rd will receive the full amount they asked for. (currently 27 players means the potential for; three 4-player teams, and nine 3-player teams). Minimum of 2 players needed, 2-man teams are not-allowed!

After all bids are in;
The WMs will organize all the bids by price amount bid.
Then the highest priced bid will win that player, then the next highest bid amount, and so forth.
This means General A could win 3 players before any other General if they have the 3 highest bids.
If a player is tied with the highest bid amount, then the favorites will be looked at. If neither of the tied Gen bids are on the favorite list, then the player will randomly be slotted into one of the teams by dice roll.
If a General does not win a minimum number of players needed, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly from those remaining. If there would not be anyone remaining, then the lowest bid legal players (one that is not on a bans list) from one of the teams with the most players would be removed and placed on the team that is needing the player.

Spoiler for Example:

If these were the bid lists we recieved:

Applicant	General A (2 players wanted)
Albert	1000
Benson	940
Catherine	820
Delrose	300

Applicant	General B (1 player wanted)
Delrose	670
Albert	670
Benson	670
Catherine	670

Applicant	General C (2 players wanted)
Benson	2000
Delrose	670
Catherine	70

We would then arrange it as

Benson - 2000 - General C
Albert - 1000 - General A
Benson - 940 - General A
Cathrine - 820 - General A
Delrose - 670 - General B, Delrose - 670 - General C
Albert - 670 - General B
Benson - 670 - General B
Cathrine - 670 - General B
Delrose - 300 - General A
Cathrine - 70 - General C



Benson would be won by General C,
Albert would be won by General A,
Catherine would be won by General A, (this fills his want for 2 players)
Delrose would then either be coin flipped into team B or C if neither are on the favorites list.

If we misunderstood what is wanted by the community and war-player base, please let us know so that we can re-evaluate what is actually wanted.





Also a big thanks to everyone's patience regarding this event. As Warmasters, we want to make sure we bring you the best possible event and unfortunately that means changing decisions when plans do not go as expected (like fewer applicants than planned). A big thanks to everyone and we are still hoping for an awesome event once things get rolling and this gets started!

[kaempfer13]

As an alternative, here is how i would do auction:

• Every General can bid on any player, so long as the new bid is the current winning bid+ the minimum raise and the total of their curently winning bids doesnt exceed half their starting points (that means you cant lock yourselfes out of bidding on people unless you are greatly overbidding).
• Players who have been bid on 24 hours ago and not been bid on by another general since are locked into that team (so after at least a day action is required; now with generals being able to bid more or less freely this wont result in players going for way too cheap, while everyone else is semilocked into a team).
• Minimum raise will be calculated as follows: - 100+25*clock of doom counters+ 50 for less favourite
  Let me explain:
  • any raise has to be at least 100 in addition to all the other factors
  • The clock of doom advances every 6 hours since the beginning of auction. So after a day the minimum raise will be 200 (100+25*4).
  • The less favourite summand only applies if the general with the current winning bid is higher on that players favourite list than the element of the general making the new bid
• You can raise your own bids by any amount so long as you hold the winning bid. This will not reset the timer for locking the player in.
• Minimum starting bid (before any other bids have been made for that player, unaffected by the clock of doom) is 50+ 50*number of bans (quite frankly I never understood why bans increase your minimum bid; the players that certain teams absolutely want will definitely go for more anyways, so whats the point? Just keeping it out of tradition.)

[deuce22]

i hate draft. If i want player A and B, and i make high bids on both in R1 draft, i'll only get one of them and may lose the other player to a Gen, even if that gen bid less than me. If draft is changed and if the highest bid for B is by me, then i get first dibs on him, regardless if i already have a player that round, then i wouldnt mind supporitng it.

That sort of draft is exactly what I’ve proposed multiple times in this thread and the S&F thread over the past year. It’s fair, strategic, alots appropriate value for all players, and it takes hardly any time.

The only reason auction is being considered right now is because the current draft rules make little sense. Just fix the draft rules and everything will be as it should... except WMs still haven’t nerfed monoair sofree or gotten rid of market prices. What’s the point in having a S&F thread if nothing is done about the big issues that plague this event repeatedly?

@WMs would you consider this?

From the WMs understanding of discussion in this thread regarding draft, the one round draft that we have been currently discussing in regards to editing in place of the current draft. Hopefully this is more appropriate to what is being asked for here.

Please let us know if we have misunderstood what is being asked for, but this is what we have been discussing, and what we would change it to:

Spoiler for Hidden:

1 round of about 48 hours
Gens bid at once, sending in a list for all the people they would like to bid on.
Additionally Gens state with their bid lists the amount of players they want for their team, 2 or 3.
Gens list a price planned along with each player.
The list must be ordered numerically descending with the highest price at the top.
Gens may list as few or as many players they want, but if they do not win enough of their bids, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly.
If Generals want a total of more players then are available, those bidding the highest for their 3rd will receive the full amount they asked for. (currently 27 players means the potential for; three 4-player teams, and nine 3-player teams). Minimum of 2 players needed, 2-man teams are not-allowed!

After all bids are in;
The WMs will organize all the bids by price amount bid.
Then the highest priced bid will win that player, then the next highest bid amount, and so forth.
This means General A could win 3 players before any other General if they have the 3 highest bids.
If a player is tied with the highest bid amount, then the favorites will be looked at. If neither of the tied Gen bids are on the favorite list, then the player will randomly be slotted into one of the teams by dice roll.
If a General does not win a minimum number of players needed, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly from those remaining. If there would not be anyone remaining, then the lowest bid legal players (one that is not on a bans list) from one of the teams with the most players would be removed and placed on the team that is needing the player.

Spoiler for Example:

If these were the bid lists we recieved:

Applicant	General A (2 players wanted)
Albert	1000
Benson	940
Catherine	820
Delrose	300

Applicant	General B (1 player wanted)
Delrose	670
Albert	670
Benson	670
Catherine	670

Applicant	General C (2 players wanted)
Benson	2000
Delrose	670
Catherine	70

We would then arrange it as

Benson - 2000 - General C
Albert - 1000 - General A
Benson - 940 - General A
Cathrine - 820 - General A
Delrose - 670 - General B, Delrose - 670 - General C
Albert - 670 - General B
Benson - 670 - General B
Cathrine - 670 - General B
Delrose - 300 - General A
Cathrine - 70 - General C



Benson would be won by General C,
Albert would be won by General A,
Catherine would be won by General A, (this fills his want for 2 players)
Delrose would then either be coin flipped into team B or C if neither are on the favorites list.

If we misunderstood what is wanted by the community and war-player base, please let us know so that we can re-evaluate what is actually wanted.





Also a big thanks to everyone's patience regarding this event. As Warmasters, we want to make sure we bring you the best possible event and unfortunately that means changing decisions when plans do not go as expected (like fewer applicants than planned). A big thanks to everyone and we are still hoping for an awesome event once things get rolling and this gets started!

This format is interesting, but not exactly what I was suggesting.  This system seems more like a blind auction rather than a draft... Seems like its a lot more work for Gens to apply values to all of the applicants too. Also, Gens may end up spending a lot on 2 players when they only want 1 high cost player.

Why not just have all Gens submit to WMs how much they want to spend on their 2 players. The draft order is then determined by how much each Gen bids.

Spoiler for example:

Gen A - 2000, 1000 (3000 total)
Gen B - 1100, 500 (1600 total)
Gen C - 50, 50 (100 total)
Gen D - 900, 200 (1100 total)

Draft Order
1. Gen A - 2000
2. Gen B - 1100
3. Gen A - 1000
4. Gen D - 900
5. Gen B - 500
6. Gen D - 200
7. Gen C - 50
8. Gen C - 50

Once draft order is determined, Gens can then submit their rank list of players. WMs then use these rank lists to determine teams. The few players who are leftover can then join teams either free of charge or for min bid. Question is, which teams get one of these leftover players.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

For the third player, you can just include those bids right away. If there are 4 "extra" players, the 4 highest third bids of teams will be used. The other third bids are discarded, even if they are higher than a first or second bid of another team.

That at least seems the fairest solution to me. Want more players? Just gotta pay enough.