Everything you see in this thread is subject to change.
Starting this one earlytoday so we can get War going sooner than later good rules with feedback from the community.
Current Plans for War #12
- Market price rebalancing
- Variable Team Sizes
- Market Price Coupons
- Incremental Salvage/Discard based on Match Score
- Lore, and Themed EC cards
- Auction Revamp
- Changing General and Lieutenant Roles into Soldier Boosts
- Small rule changes, listed out below
Here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n7yTJ1Ip1DrpsfaaJINcAQzLKvfPXJRDqIleiJfen6I/edit?usp=sharing) is out first effort to understand the market and see how it can be improved. Still a work in progress.
With the lower amount of players playing War, rather than just continually reduce team sizes, we want to try variable team sizes similar to what has been done in Brawl. Based on the number of applicants we will be having minimum team sizes of 3 players (General + 2 applicants) and a maximum of 5 players (General + 4 applicants).
Matches will be consistent at 5 games per round regardless of team size. If there are less players on a team then number of matches, any player from the team may play the remaining matches.
Thoughts on other ways to arrange variable team sizes, while still having equal number of matches for discards/salvages?
After a general has won their team members, during the first 24 hours of vault building, Teams may buy coupons for reductions in the market. Each Grouping has been scaled down appropriately by their type.
Each Bucket Group will remove X points from your selected cards.
- Creatures - 10 points
- Spells - 5 points
- Permanents - 15 points
NOTE: Shards are not included in these bucket groups, and do not have a discount applied to them!We are still finalizing the exact Discount amount, but are confident with the bucket groupings. We have looked at both a flat rate (X points) and by percentage, but feel that incremental is easier to follow, in keeping all values at multiples of 5 for ease of counting point totals.
As per several Suggestions in the S&F thread, we would like to implement varying salvage and discard based on the scoreline in each match. The current amounts discussed are:
| Score | Salvage | Discard |
| 3-0 or 0-3 | Base Salvage | Base Discard |
| 3-1 or 1-3 | -1 | -1 (-2 after Round 4) |
| 3-2 or 2-3 | -2 | -2 (-4 after Round 4) |
- This will be based off of the rounds base value. (R1 = 6, R2 = 12, R3+ = 24)
- Additional Discards will be taken from the Vault
We feel this will help increase the potential mindgates, and give closer matches overall. Yes there is some "rich get richer, poor get poorer" considerations, but we feel the shift in meta planned, and other Rules changes planned will help balance this.
We plan to try something similar to Brawl with an overlying theme during the whole War. All EC's and Super EC's will be connected in some way. Also adjustments may be made in the rules formatting, to help provide a more thematic appearance.
Blind auction, starting bids, favorites and bans the same as war 11. Only 1-2 days of open auction, then raises start getting more expensive by a multiplicative every day (24 hour period). This hopes to stop the practice of waiting for the deadline and then ninjabidding, which makes auction slow and forces generals to be around for a specific time. We hope to lessen the problem by diluting it.
Generals will NOT be locked from voting if they currently have a full team of 4 soldiers. After auction ends, generals will take the players they have max bids on, in descending order of bids. If a General has 3 or 4+ winning bids, they may not opt out for less players than they have winning bids on unto a maximum of 4 soldiers. While this might result in a player being bid on but not ending on a roster, we don't expect this to be an issue. Player substitutions will also be more open to account for this.
Thoughts?
We plan to remove the Lieutenant role and change it into a soldier boost. This means that Lt is no longer mandatory each round. Conversely we have removed the upgrades boost from the soldier roles. With the Addition of the Lt to soldier boosts, we felt that there was no need for a second upgrade type of boost which is why the +2 ups boost was replaced with the Lt ups (+4).
Lieutenant Upgrades (+4)
Extra Salvage (+2)
Reduced Discard (-2) - This applies to the "Discard from the Vault"("Discards from Deck" if no discards from vault) as per the table in section 4.2.
Tinkerer - Off-Element pendulums now count as your own Element for deckbuilding percentage and upgrade rules. You must use your own team's mark.
Sideboard of 3 cards - the first game must be played with the full deck. Before each match, you must import the deck from vault tool. After the first game, you may remove (up to) 3 cards after importing. If any of the three cards are upgraded, you may reallocate these upgrades elsewhere in the deck. The deck played should always be at least 50% in-Element, and should always contain at least 4 in-Element upgrades. Minimum deck size for the original deck (in vault tool) is 33 cards.
Mercenary - Can only use 4 or fewer Elements in the deck; deck only has to be 40% in-Element.
Gambler - Bet the scoreline (distinguishing between win or loss for your team) on this deck. If the scoreline is exactly right, you win 3 relics. If it's off by one game, you win 1 relic.
Alchemist - Can transmute cards with 2 less dust cost. (see Transmutations (#post_michealbay) for more information )
All players other than the General would then have the 8 upgrades, with the required 4 in-element ups.
Additional adjustments may still be made to the former Soldier boosts to account for the power the Gen and Lt bring with the upgrade amounts.
These are still under discussion, and are possible to change. We will update as we finalize these.
If you have suggestions for minor changes, please let us know.
This is not a final list. More stuff will be added as we work on them.
Feel free to post your thoughts about any or all of these points, but please keep your feedback constructive.
i hate draft. If i want player A and B, and i make high bids on both in R1 draft, i'll only get one of them and may lose the other player to a Gen, even if that gen bid less than me. If draft is changed and if the highest bid for B is by me, then i get first dibs on him, regardless if i already have a player that round, then i wouldnt mind supporitng it.
That sort of draft is exactly what I’ve proposed multiple times in this thread and the S&F thread over the past year. It’s fair, strategic, alots appropriate value for all players, and it takes hardly any time.
The only reason auction is being considered right now is because the current draft rules make little sense. Just fix the draft rules and everything will be as it should... except WMs still haven’t nerfed monoair sofree or gotten rid of market prices. What’s the point in having a S&F thread if nothing is done about the big issues that plague this event repeatedly?
@WMs would you consider this?
From the WMs understanding of discussion in this thread regarding draft, the one round draft that we have been currently discussing in regards to editing in place of the current draft. Hopefully this is more appropriate to what is being asked for here.
Please let us know if we have misunderstood what is being asked for, but this is what we have been discussing, and what we would change it to:
1 round of about 48 hours
Gens bid at once, sending in a list for all the people they would like to bid on.
Additionally Gens state with their bid lists the amount of players they want for their team, 2 or 3.
Gens list a price planned along with each player.
The list must be ordered numerically descending with the highest price at the top.
Gens may list as few or as many players they want, but if they do not win enough of their bids, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly.
If Generals want a total of more players then are available, those bidding the highest for their 3rd will receive the full amount they asked for. (currently 27 players means the potential for; three 4-player teams, and nine 3-player teams). Minimum of 2 players needed, 2-man teams are not-allowed!
After all bids are in;
The WMs will organize all the bids by price amount bid.
Then the highest priced bid will win that player, then the next highest bid amount, and so forth.
This means General A could win 3 players before any other General if they have the 3 highest bids.
If a player is tied with the highest bid amount, then the favorites will be looked at. If neither of the tied Gen bids are on the favorite list, then the player will randomly be slotted into one of the teams by dice roll.
If a General does not win a minimum number of players needed, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly from those remaining. If there would not be anyone remaining, then the lowest bid legal players (one that is not on a bans list) from one of the teams with the most players would be removed and placed on the team that is needing the player.
If these were the bid lists we recieved:
| Applicant | General A (2 players wanted) |
| Albert | 1000 |
| Benson | 940 |
| Catherine | 820 |
| Delrose | 300 |
| Applicant | General B (1 player wanted) |
| Delrose | 670 |
| Albert | 670 |
| Benson | 670 |
| Catherine | 670 |
| Applicant | General C (2 players wanted) |
| Benson | 2000 |
| Delrose | 670 |
| Catherine | 70 |
We would then arrange it as
Benson - 2000 - General C
Albert - 1000 - General A
Benson - 940 - General A
Cathrine - 820 - General A
Delrose - 670 - General B, Delrose - 670 - General C
Albert - 670 - General B
Benson - 670 - General B
Cathrine - 670 - General B
Delrose - 300 - General A
Cathrine - 70 - General C
Benson would be won by General C,
Albert would be won by General A,
Catherine would be won by General A, (this fills his want for 2 players)
Delrose would then either be coin flipped into team B or C if neither are on the favorites list.
If we misunderstood what is wanted by the community and war-player base, please let us know so that we can re-evaluate what is actually wanted.
Also a big thanks to everyone's patience regarding this event. As Warmasters, we want to make sure we bring you the best possible event and unfortunately that means changing decisions when plans do not go as expected (like fewer applicants than planned). A big thanks to everyone and we are still hoping for an awesome event once things get rolling and this gets started!
i hate draft. If i want player A and B, and i make high bids on both in R1 draft, i'll only get one of them and may lose the other player to a Gen, even if that gen bid less than me. If draft is changed and if the highest bid for B is by me, then i get first dibs on him, regardless if i already have a player that round, then i wouldnt mind supporitng it.
That sort of draft is exactly what I’ve proposed multiple times in this thread and the S&F thread over the past year. It’s fair, strategic, alots appropriate value for all players, and it takes hardly any time.
The only reason auction is being considered right now is because the current draft rules make little sense. Just fix the draft rules and everything will be as it should... except WMs still haven’t nerfed monoair sofree or gotten rid of market prices. What’s the point in having a S&F thread if nothing is done about the big issues that plague this event repeatedly?
@WMs would you consider this?
From the WMs understanding of discussion in this thread regarding draft, the one round draft that we have been currently discussing in regards to editing in place of the current draft. Hopefully this is more appropriate to what is being asked for here.
Please let us know if we have misunderstood what is being asked for, but this is what we have been discussing, and what we would change it to:
1 round of about 48 hours
Gens bid at once, sending in a list for all the people they would like to bid on.
Additionally Gens state with their bid lists the amount of players they want for their team, 2 or 3.
Gens list a price planned along with each player.
The list must be ordered numerically descending with the highest price at the top.
Gens may list as few or as many players they want, but if they do not win enough of their bids, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly.
If Generals want a total of more players then are available, those bidding the highest for their 3rd will receive the full amount they asked for. (currently 27 players means the potential for; three 4-player teams, and nine 3-player teams). Minimum of 2 players needed, 2-man teams are not-allowed!
After all bids are in;
The WMs will organize all the bids by price amount bid.
Then the highest priced bid will win that player, then the next highest bid amount, and so forth.
This means General A could win 3 players before any other General if they have the 3 highest bids.
If a player is tied with the highest bid amount, then the favorites will be looked at. If neither of the tied Gen bids are on the favorite list, then the player will randomly be slotted into one of the teams by dice roll.
If a General does not win a minimum number of players needed, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly from those remaining. If there would not be anyone remaining, then the lowest bid legal players (one that is not on a bans list) from one of the teams with the most players would be removed and placed on the team that is needing the player.
If these were the bid lists we recieved:
| Applicant | General A (2 players wanted) |
| Albert | 1000 |
| Benson | 940 |
| Catherine | 820 |
| Delrose | 300 |
| Applicant | General B (1 player wanted) |
| Delrose | 670 |
| Albert | 670 |
| Benson | 670 |
| Catherine | 670 |
| Applicant | General C (2 players wanted) |
| Benson | 2000 |
| Delrose | 670 |
| Catherine | 70 |
We would then arrange it as
Benson - 2000 - General C
Albert - 1000 - General A
Benson - 940 - General A
Cathrine - 820 - General A
Delrose - 670 - General B, Delrose - 670 - General C
Albert - 670 - General B
Benson - 670 - General B
Cathrine - 670 - General B
Delrose - 300 - General A
Cathrine - 70 - General C
Benson would be won by General C,
Albert would be won by General A,
Catherine would be won by General A, (this fills his want for 2 players)
Delrose would then either be coin flipped into team B or C if neither are on the favorites list.
If we misunderstood what is wanted by the community and war-player base, please let us know so that we can re-evaluate what is actually wanted.
Also a big thanks to everyone's patience regarding this event. As Warmasters, we want to make sure we bring you the best possible event and unfortunately that means changing decisions when plans do not go as expected (like fewer applicants than planned). A big thanks to everyone and we are still hoping for an awesome event once things get rolling and this gets started!
This format is interesting, but not exactly what I was suggesting. This system seems more like a blind auction rather than a draft... Seems like its a lot more work for Gens to apply values to all of the applicants too. Also, Gens may end up spending a lot on 2 players when they only want 1 high cost player.
Why not just have all Gens submit to WMs how much they want to spend on their 2 players. The draft order is then determined by how much each Gen bids.
Gen A - 2000, 1000 (3000 total)
Gen B - 1100, 500 (1600 total)
Gen C - 50, 50 (100 total)
Gen D - 900, 200 (1100 total)
Draft Order
1. Gen A - 2000
2. Gen B - 1100
3. Gen A - 1000
4. Gen D - 900
5. Gen B - 500
6. Gen D - 200
7. Gen C - 50
8. Gen C - 50
Once draft order is determined, Gens can then submit their rank list of players. WMs then use these rank lists to determine teams. The few players who are leftover can then join teams either free of charge or for min bid. Question is, which teams get one of these leftover players.