War #11 - Suggestions and Feedback

[iancudorinmarian]

Please can we have christmas week off like last war?

+1

[mathman101]

Please can we have christmas week off like last war?

Curious what you mean by "week off like last war", since war 10 was done by Dec. 13th. 

Also War's 6-9 all had extra long rounds over the holidays, but never a week off if that is what you were thinking of.

[Zawadx]

Yes. Would doubling R10 be enough?

[JonathanCrazyJ]

So db deadline 28th and match deadline 3rd? Probs best solution, sounds good

[Spielkind]

With doublng you mean, having double time for deckbuilding and double for duelphase? I guess that would work best. +1

[Zawadx]

The best way to not have ECs you hate is if you suggest them yourself! Post all EC/Super EC suggestions you may have~

[worldwideweb3]

The best way to not have ECs you hate is if you suggest them yourself! Post all EC/Super EC suggestions you may have~

Fire steals some of airs cards and revives.

[iancudorinmarian]

Well, I said I'll give some feedback at some point, so here it is. First, I want to say nice work Zawadx and thank you for organizing this war. Having said that, here are some suggestions for future wars and what went wrong this war:

- there should probably be some in-element discount during vault-building, as currently it's really hard for some teams to build a decent vault without it being one-dimensional (5-10% maybe?)
- different number of discards depending on score (a 2-3 loss should hurt less than a 0-3 loss cardwise)
-  maybe also adjust card limits for number of matches. Currently it's really hard to build decks when you're even like 20 cards over the limit.
- no more ECs that give cards out of nowhere and no more ECs that are not equally fair for all teams. They should be simple and have minimal impact.
- the following shards should reduce the number of upgrades by a certain number when added (I'm thinking -2 upgrades per shard copy): Shard of Patience, Shard of Freedom
- considering how some of the cards are broken upgraded, but are somewhat fair unupgraded, the following cards should no longer be upgradeable:

• Graboid (Huge difference from 8/3 to 10/4)
• Fire Bolt (This makes decks like firestall more "fair" to play against)
• Miracle (Maybe it's just me, but immortal-like decks are very frustrating to play against. This should make it a little more fair.)
• Blue Nymph (Absolutely insane card and very hard to kill if upgraded. This should at least make it at least have some more CC counters)
• Sundial (Screw this card. Seriously, it's in every single stall deck, and no wonder why. 0 quanta stall 1 turn, with the ability of also drawing a card? Being unupgraded should make it less spread)
• Vampire Stiletto (This card is in EVERY single deck that can produce darkness quantum. Insane in rush, midrange, stall, you name it. Being unupgraded only should make it feel less frustrating and less game swinging)

Also, in addition to the shards mentioned before, these cards should also reduce number of upgrades when used:

Note: -x / y means -x upgrades for every y copies

Card	Upgrades
Nova	-1 / 3
Bone Wall	-1 / 2
Damselfly	-1 / 3
Dimensional Shield	-1 / 2
Fractal	-1 / 2

Let me know what you think!


Now, on to the SEC/EC review. There will be 5 tiers: Great - Good - Okay - Bad - Terrible

Spoiler for Super EC Review:

Spoiler for R1-3:

Rating: Terrible.

This was a really unfair EC. We're already restricted through having the vault limitation, there's really no need to add further restriction. This had a huge impact on some of the teams and no impact at all on other teams.

Spoiler for R4-6:

Rating: Good.

Simple and fair EC. I'm hesitating to call it Great because the tokens cost more than fodder cards.

Spoiler for R7-9:

Spoiler for description:

Each team is awarded an amount of 'Scaredgirl Relic's based on their round record so far.
Each team is awarded 1 SG Relic for rounds with 2 wins, 2 for rounds with 1 win and 3 for rounds with 0 wins.
From rounds 1 to 6, 4 win rounds subtract 1 relic from the total.
Teams receiving a bye are considered as having won all byed matches for EC count. So a team with 2-1 record with a bye will get 0 SG relics for that round.
1 SG Relic may be traded for the following perks:

    Gain 2 Discard tokens
    Add a soldier boost to any deck (can stack; Alchemist, Mercenary & Tinkerer can only be used once per deck)
    Play 1 additional match, with salvage but no discard. (can be used multiple times a round)

Rating: Terrible.

There's really no need for crazy stuff like this. And what's worse, it's rewarding losers and punishing winners. This had a huge impact on the end result of war. I'm getting salty just looking at it, it's the reason ended 6th instead of 4th. Right now I wish I had a tier below "Terrible" for this one.

Spoiler for R10-13:

Spoiler for description:

Each deck can use one additional soldier boost.
Generals and Lieutenants can use one boost, soldiers can use two.
You may not repeat a boost. i.e. a boost may only be used once across all decks.
Post all boosts used in a thread in secret section titled R10-12 Super EC.

Rating: Okay

I really don't like ECs like this that let you stack up a bunch of roles. This isn't all that bad though.

Spoiler for EC review:

Spoiler for R1:

Rating: Dunno.

Really, I don't know how to rate this. It's too tied to the SEC, which is terrible. I would've rated it "Good" if it was tied to giving up some other advantage.

Spoiler for R2:

Rating: Great.

Simple EC, fair for all teams.

Spoiler for R3:

Rating: Great.

Also simple and fair EC. It's tied to the SEC which, again, is terrible, but the idea is really nice and simple.

Spoiler for R4:

Rating: Bad.

Additional deadlines are always bad. The issue with this EC is that the other team builds a deck, then sees the EC result, and have to do testing and build a new deck. I remember being like "welp, see you all in 24 hours" when I saw this EC.

Spoiler for R5:

Spoiler for description:

Predict the match outcome and exact game record for each of your matches. Get 1 discard token for correct match prediction, and an additional 2 tokens for predicting game record too.
Make a new thread in secret section titled 'R5 EC'. Post your predictions there by deckbuilding deadline.
Match prediction means predicting whether the match will be a win or a loss. Game record means the exact game outcome (e.g. 3-1, 0-3)
Your match and game record predictions may not contradict each other. If so it will be considered invalid.

Rating: Great.

Simple EC with minimal effect.

Spoiler for R6:

Spoiler for description:

You may add up to 8 cards to vault, with total market value less than 501 points. Market prices are listed here.
All those cards will be removed at the start of Round 9. Additionally, you will have to discard 1 more card from vault per card added this way. (so if you added 5 cards, those 5 cards will be removed and you will also have to 5 additional vault discards in Round 9 deckbuilding phase).
These cards may not be used for discards or penalties otherwise.
Make a new thread in secret section titled 'R6 EC'. Post card you want to add by deckbuilding deadline.
You may use discard tokens to pay off the extra discards from vault by this EC.
If the card penalty in Round 9 would force vault below 50 cards, the team will have to use discard tokens to survive. If they do not have sufficient discard tokens, they will have to discard until they are at 50 cards, and pay off the remaining discards in Round 10. If they would be incapable of doing so in Round 10, they are eliminated.

Rating: Terrible.

Seriously, there's no need for "ghost" cards that come out of nowhere. It makes mindgating almost impossible and you're left in a situation where you just send a deck and hope it works.

Spoiler for R7:

Spoiler for description:

Choose one: Play an additional match with 8 salvage but no discards, or gain 1 SG relic (useable from next round)
Post your decision in a thread titled "R7 EC" in secret section within first 2 days of deckbuilding phase.

Rating: Bad.

Although simple, I really dislike extra matches. I also hate the SEC it's tied to.

Spoiler for R8:

Spoiler for description:

You may use 3/7/12 less upgrades in a deck to gain 1/2/3 SG relics. Can gain a maximum of 4 SG relics in this way.
A deck cannot have negative upgrades, naturally.
You may use the SG relics gained from this EC in this round.
If you use those SG relics for additional matches, and it is refunded, you will regain your upgrades.
Only applies to normal matches; you may not use this EC for matched played by using SG relics.

Rating: Bad

Good idea, bad implementation. I like having ECs that let you use less upgrades for some sort of advantages, but now we're back to these silly SG relics. Screw SG relics.

Spoiler for R9:

Spoiler for description:

For each match, select Paper, Rock or Scissor. You may also select Dynamite.
Paper > Rock > Scissors > Paper.
Winning with Rock grants 6 extra upgrades this match.
Winning with Scissors grants 4.
Winning with Paper grants 2.
A player who selects "Dynamite" wins in the case of a draw.
If both players select dynamite, (inc. Rock/Dynamite vs Scissors/Dynamite etc.) neither player wins anything.
If neither player selects Dynamite and it's a draw, neither player wins anything.
You must send your choices by the deckbuilding deadline.
Upgrades are added to the deck before each game. So you may choose which upgrades to use, and change these extra upgrades as you wish.
The upgrades are added after removing cards for sideboard in case of the sideboard boost.

Rating: Great.

Loved this. You decide the risk you want to take, and the effect isn't devastating unless you go for the very high risk, which again, it's your choice if you think it's worth it.

Spoiler for R10:

Spoiler for description:

Two new boosts are added for this round only:
Mechanic: If you win, Salvage from own deck. Salvage must not exceed market value of 1000 dust.
Conjurer: May use up to 3 cards from outside vault. i.e. use cards as if 3 cards of your choice were added to the vault (may be cards which are already present in the vault)

Rating: Bad.

Although I like the idea (as stated in the R2 (?) EC that gave new boosts), these boosts are just too much. We're back to "ghost" cards and basically free transmutations.

Spoiler for R11:

Spoiler for description:

According to the order in Match Results and Countdown, the first player is considered Initiator and second person is considered as Defender.
e.g. in Match 1 Manuel is the Initiator, and vagman13 is the Defender.
After the first duel is finished, the Initiator may void it. Then that match restarts from 0-0. Sideboard may not be used if the scoreline is 0-0.
After the Defender has lost the match 2-3, they may void the last game. Then the scoreline becomes 2-2, and the final duel determines the winner.

Rating: Good.

I remember an EC like this, but instead of restarting specific games after the result, each player could restart a game right after coin toss if they thought their hand was bad.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

This refers to the post in announcements.

This fixes NOTHING the rule is still horifically unbalanced whether its for 3 rounds or one, and it was only ever going to be for one round anyway because war wont last till round 14.

Please, sideboard is borderline ok AT 3 cards, any more is horrible and favours some teams far far more than others. Of the teams remaining only air can even benefit from it!

[JonathanCrazyJ]

To elaborate, air win games when they splash the right ones of their many and varied tech cards. Wings, shockwaves, tstorm, owls eye, fog, sky blitz. Any sideboard just lets them splash more stuff, where water and life have whole decks that are countered by just one of those individual types of card, and gain very little value from their own sideboarding.

Please dear god how many times and in how many ways do i have to explain why this doesnt work?

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Tripple post:

I mean how many times have you heard a team say "i was just praying they didnt have sky blitz" or "i dont know if i can steal that owls eye, they might have wings" THEY COULD PACK 3X MORE TECH CARDS WITH THIS!!!!
I honestly cant understand how you dont see the problem here!!

[Spielkind]

Im with you, jcj. But i intend to let none of us seeing round 13.