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Offline FrostguardTopic starter

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Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373416#msg373416
« on: July 30, 2011, 01:42:58 am »
NAME:
Entrench
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
3 :earth
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
-
TEXT:
Burrow the targeted creature.
NAME:
Burrow
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
2 :earth
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
-
TEXT:
Burrow the targeted creature.
ART:
Hyena. Image found on commons.wikimedia.org; author released it to public domain.
IDEA:
Frostguard
NOTES:
To make it clear, this card would not replace the creature's skill with skill Burrow/Unburrow. The target would simply gain the status 'burrowed' just as the Graboid gets it when it enters the play; it would be unable to unburrow itself anymore (except if its original skill was Burrow/Unburrow), and it would keep its skill and be able to use it.
SERIES:
-
Weird, I expected this card to be swarming everywhere amongst the ideas, paradoxically, I found none (maybe my search wasn't thorough enough).
At first, I was about to specify 2 :earth and 1 :earth as cost, but then I realised that even though this card can be seen as inferior to Quintessence, it's much more versatile. It can be used on creatures which should be persevered for their skill (Nymphs, Otyugh, and so forth) and not for their attack power, where lower cost is a good reason as opposed to attack power, which, in their case, not so important; on the other hand, it's an excellent way to nerf enemy creatures and prevent the opponent from buffing them.
I think.

Offline maverixk

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373418#msg373418
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2011, 01:46:30 am »
Interesting, and I guess it was only a matter of time before it came out as a spell. I do have a few things:
1. This replaces the creatures current skill, correct?
2. I would lower the cost, I mean, the skill only costs one upped or unupped.
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Offline FrostguardTopic starter

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373420#msg373420
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 01:49:57 am »
Interesting, and I guess it was only a matter of time before it came out as a spell. I do have a few things:
1. This replaces the creatures current skill, correct?
2. I would lower the cost, I mean, the skill only costs one upped or unupped.
1. I think it shouldn't. First, if it did, it was effectively a lobotomise which also halves damage, but only temporarily. If it doesn't, then skill is kept (which would encourage using it with fragile, low-attack creatures which are present only for their skills and not for their attacks), also being unable to unburrow it would be a serious disadvantage to the opponent when using it on enemy creatures.
This is only my opinion, though.
2. This is why I didn't want to reduce the cost so much; it's pretty good as a debuff against dragons.

I thought it was a matter of time, too; this is why I was surprised that I found no suggestions and ideas for this, because - I feel - that for much less obvious ideas, I've come too late already.

Offline maverixk

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373424#msg373424
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 01:54:28 am »
1. I think it shouldn't. First, if it did, it was effectively a lobotomise which also halves damage, but only temporarily. If it doesn't, then skill is kept (which would encourage using it with fragile, low-attack creatures which are present only for their skills and not for their attacks), also being unable to unburrow it would be a serious disadvantage to the opponent when using it on enemy creatures.
This is only my opinion, though.

2. This is why I didn't want to reduce the cost so much; it's pretty good as a debuff against dragons.
Actually, I don't see how it wouldn't. The creature might be able to keep skills such as vampire(however I think not) since burrow is an activated skill. Look at Butterfly Effect for example.
? I don't think it would debuff dragons, however it would debuff creatures such as fallen elf and anubis because of its lobotomizing effect. ^
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline FrostguardTopic starter

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373428#msg373428
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 01:58:18 am »
1. I think it shouldn't. First, if it did, it was effectively a lobotomise which also halves damage, but only temporarily. If it doesn't, then skill is kept (which would encourage using it with fragile, low-attack creatures which are present only for their skills and not for their attacks), also being unable to unburrow it would be a serious disadvantage to the opponent when using it on enemy creatures.
This is only my opinion, though.

2. This is why I didn't want to reduce the cost so much; it's pretty good as a debuff against dragons.
Actually, I don't see how it wouldn't. The creature might be able to keep skills such as vampire(however I think not) since burrow is an activated skill. Look at Butterfly Effect for example.
? I don't think it would debuff dragons, however it would debuff creatures such as fallen elf and anubis because of its lobotomizing effect. ^
I mean to gain the state 'burrowed' as the Graboids enter the play burrowed. They still have a skill.
Or when the Fallen Druid's Mutate turns a creature to a Graboid; it has a skill and yet it gains status 'burrowed' and it can't get unburrowed anymore.
I meant it like that.
In this case, it would mean a severe against dragons. I wouldn't burrow my Arctic Dragon to get it from 13/5 to 6/5;
Instead my Gravity Nymph. I would spare the Momentum to protect it from Fire Shield and Thorn Carapace as its 1/4 would change to 0/4, and it could cast its Black Holes in the certainty that it's truly invincible.

Offline maverixk

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373429#msg373429
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 02:00:12 am »
Oh! I thought you meant it would burrow it and the creature would gain the skill unburrow...this all makes sense now. So the creature can't unburrow? just to be clear.
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline FrostguardTopic starter

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373430#msg373430
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 02:02:05 am »
Oh! I thought you meant it would burrow it and the creature would gain the skill unburrow...this all makes sense now. So the creature can't unburrow? just to be clear.
Exactly. Keeps its skill and can't unburrow anymore. I meant it in this way.

Offline maverixk

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373431#msg373431
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 02:03:29 am »
Ok, now that I understand that-Love the card! I'll definitely vote for it if/when I can!
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline FrostguardTopic starter

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373433#msg373433
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 02:07:18 am »
Ok, now that I understand that-Love the card! I'll definitely vote for it if/when I can!
Thanks a lot!
I'll wait for some more feedback, though.
By the way, if I'd intended this card to 'replace current skill with skill Burrow/Unburrow', I'd have named it 'Spade' or 'Digging Claws' or something like that, I have no idea.
Just a sidenote.

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg373696#msg373696
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 05:47:39 pm »
I updated the suggestion (added some important information to the 'Notes' section).
Honestly, I'd be very grateful for some feedback. I'm curious how balanced the idea is.
Thanks in advance for anyone!

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg374052#msg374052
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 07:50:27 pm »
Seriously, nobody has anything to comment (or was the idea suggested once)?
I'd be very grateful as this is my only card that I'd seriously like to see as a Crucible candidate. Balancing would be crucial.

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Re: Entrench | Burrow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29272.msg374057#msg374057
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 08:05:05 pm »
While reducing a creature's attack by half and making it immaterial is assuredly powerful, my main point against this card is that there isn't enough working with the "Buried" theme yet.

My effort to change that was in Crude Oil (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29059.0.html) and as you can see there is clear synergy in our card ideas.

Aside from the lack of in-game "Buried" theme I really happen to like this idea, and for :earth Earth's defensive nature, cutting a creature's attack in half is a powerful tool to have for itself.

P.S. I think the costing of this card is adequate, especially considering that Antimatter can reduce a creature's attack value twice over for 8 :entropy, while this card reduces it by half.

Compare:
Atk reduction: -200%Atk Reduction: -50%
Cost: 8 :entropyCost: 3 :earth
-200% = -50% * 4
∴ 8 :entropy = [cost of Entrench] * 4
[insert Arithmetic], results in: [cost of Entrench] = 2 :earth

Due to :earth Earth's defensive nature however, a little increase in cost seems adequate compared to pure elementally-ignored calculations. Therefore the cost 2 :earth + 1 :earth = 3 :earth seems accurate.

@Frostguard: You seem to enjoy making card ideas a lot. Keep at it. You're doing excellently. Try to make the art for some of your cards, it can open the doors for you in a lot of ways. Kudos.
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