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Offline the dictatorTopic starter

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High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111001#msg111001
« on: July 09, 2010, 02:03:34 pm »
Another one in the quanta related spell series.

NAME:
High Voltage
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
6 :aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
-
ABILITY:
Generates a spark for each 5 aether quantums in your possession.
CHANGELOG:
    Cost from 6 to 5.
NAME:
Extreme Voltage
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
-
ABILITY:
Generates a Ball Lightning for each 6 aether quantums in your possesion.
CHANGELOG:
    Cost from 4 to 6.From 1 Ball Lightning for each 5 to one Ball Lightning for each 6 quanta.
ART:
Originally found here, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_voltage) on the right, direct link , but heavily editted by The Dictator.
IDEA:
The Dictator
NOTES:
    No starting spark like with the bolts. You need to have 5 quantums to get one spark (but the unupgraded one costs 6, so you always get one).WILL be reflected by shield. Using it when your opponent has a reflective shield will result in sparks at his side of the field.Might be a little bit OPThe sparks won't set of any death effects, like vultures, boneyards or bonewalls
SERIES:
Quanta related Spells (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9401.0.html)

I tried to balance it, but 3 (or even 5) damage for 5 quanta might be to much. However, unlike the other bolts this one is effected by damage reduction from shields.
To prevent a vulture/spark spam, the sparks do not trigger any death effects.
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Xoned

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111012#msg111012
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 02:50:13 pm »
Seems balanced, 1 damage for 1 quanta upped.

Innominate

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111056#msg111056
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 03:58:42 pm »
Seems balanced, 1 damage for 1 quanta upped.
With 1 of the upped cards in hand, you need 100 quanta to kill somebody in one turn (assuming no shield). With one fire lance, you need 330. With one ice lance or siphon life, you need 490.

Quanta to kill:
Cards in HandExtreme VoltageFire LanceIce Lance/Siphon Life
1100330490
254161241
339110161
43381121
5306394
6295381
As you can see, this skill is massively more powerful than existing abilities when no shield is in play. Even when a 2 point shield is in play (probably just high of the median shield value), Extreme Voltage gains damage at twice the rate of Fire Lance. It isn't just overpowered, it's ridiculously overpowered. Especially since with phase shields it is trivial to stall for long enough. And, combined with Graveyards and Eclipse, you could do a whopping 9 damage per ball lightning (as skeletons attack the turn they appear) - even more if you have more than one Graveyard.

Xoned

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111066#msg111066
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 04:05:49 pm »
Seems balanced, 1 damage for 1 quanta upped.
With 1 of the upped cards in hand, you need 100 quanta to kill somebody in one turn (assuming no shield). With one fire lance, you need 330. With one ice lance or siphon life, you need 490.

As you can see, this skill is massively more powerful than existing abilities when no shield is in play. Even when a 2 point shield is in play (probably just high of the median shield value), Extreme Voltage gains damage at twice the rate of Fire Lance. It isn't just overpowered, it's ridiculously overpowered. Especially since with phase shields it is trivial to stall for long enough. And, combined with Graveyards and Eclipse, you could do a whopping 9 damage per ball lightning (as skeletons attack the turn they appear) - even more if you have more than one Graveyard.
You really think that in a real match they're gonna sit back and let you get 100 :aether quanta? By that time you'll be near death or deckout.
Read the notes, these sparks are artificial and don't trigger death effects.

Your table is irrelevant. Why would you go as far as to do the math is you have 6 of these as 1-2 would fill up your feild?

melzardust

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111283#msg111283
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2010, 09:39:56 pm »
My thought: the difference between the two cards are a bit big as the increase in power is a whooping 66% while the cost is reduced. And why is the cost four for the upped if you need 5 for a spark?

Xoned

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111299#msg111299
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 10:02:28 pm »
Maybe it should be generates a spark for each 10 :aether.

Offline ratcharmer

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111308#msg111308
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 10:14:57 pm »
I'm with melzardust on this one, the upgrade gives a big boost to the effectiveness and cuts the cost. Pick one or the other, not both.

If you keep the upgrade as Ball Lightning I could even argue that it should cost more to play (wouldn't really make much difference since this would be a late game spell anyway.)

My only other thought on this is that it very closely resembles Fractal sparks.

Innominate

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111498#msg111498
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2010, 04:22:37 am »
You really think that in a real match they're gonna sit back and let you get 100 :aether quanta? By that time you'll be near death or deckout.
Read the notes, these sparks are artificial and don't trigger death effects.
I didn't notice the notes about death effects. I guess that means we simply ignore that bit. And, if you looked at my table, you don't need 100 quanta. You need 54 quanta for 2, or 39 for 3 cards in hand. You can get 39 quanta in only a few turns hiding behind a phase shield, and then kill them in a single turn.

Your table is irrelevant. Why would you go as far as to do the math is you have 6 of these as 1-2 would fill up your feild?
1-2 wouldn't fill up your field. You have 23 creature slots, each one does 5 damage and so you only need 20 creatures (assuming no shield) to kill them in a single turn. If you have other creatures then you're already doing some damage anyway and you don't need as many. Since we're talking aether, a few phase recluses will provide plenty of damage for this spell to kill them faster.

As you yourself said, "1 damage for 1 quanta upped". So Extreme Voltage is 10 damage for 10 quanta, Fire Lance is 3 damage for 10 quanta, Ice Lance/Siphon Life are 2 damage for 10 quanta. If you look at my table, you'll see that the "quanta to kill" is massively lower than other damage spells for the same number of copies of the card in hand. Even with a diamond shield in play, Extreme Voltage is 4 damage for 10 quanta. The only way this ability would be balanced is if both versions summoned sparks. Then we have 6 for 10 with no shield, 4 for 10 with 1 point, 2 for 10 with 2 point shields and none with 3 point or reflective shields.

Or perhaps the card could just be a cheaper fractal ball lightning and fill up your hand.

Offline ratcharmer

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111503#msg111503
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2010, 04:29:07 am »
Quick question that's relevant to this discussion.

How many creatures fit on the field?

Offline karthikking

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111512#msg111512
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2010, 04:41:14 am »
Actually Fire bolt is 3 for 10 + 3.

melzardust

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111608#msg111608
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 10:18:04 am »
Quick question that's relevant to this discussion.

How many creatures fit on the field?
23 :)

dramore

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Re: High Voltage | Extreme Voltage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9397.msg111629#msg111629
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 12:16:33 pm »
I'm with melzardust on this one, the upgrade gives a big boost to the effectiveness and cuts the cost. Pick one or the other, not both.

If you keep the upgrade as Ball Lightning I could even argue that it should cost more to play (wouldn't really make much difference since this would be a late game spell anyway.)

My only other thought on this is that it very closely resembles Fractal sparks.
 
I totaly agree only this is far worse than Fractal spark......unless you count the death effect difference. I mean 2   Vulture /Condor + Fractal spark = big birds
High Voltage /Extreme Voltage + 2   Vulture /Condor = as you are bird brains! :)) :)) :))

 

blarg: