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Bender74d

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My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79229#msg79229
« on: June 01, 2010, 02:23:28 am »
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5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5c6 5c6 5lk 5lk 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5og 5og 5oh 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ol
After playing a similar version to the one above (same except minus one rustler and queen, and with two more lightning storms) i realized that i could have more than four copies of a card in my deck (old habbits).  So i adjusted it abit....idealy i'd like another Owl's Eye in the deck but i don't have one yet.  However as i've been only playing for two days i have some questions.

first a few notes on the deck:
i don't use any life pillars due to the fact that i only need the one for the ruslters and by the time i need the bond up i'll have allot of life/light to spend.  i also have fog/hope in my deck because once the deck gets rolling, hope essentially a physical lockout, but until i can get one out, i drop a fog to bide my time.


1) it seems like a simple fire wall (the one that deals 1 damage to the attackers) destroys my deck...are there any ways around that or just something i have to accept?

2) the more advanced computer fights (lvl 5 and up) drop walls that absorb up to 3 damage per creature....which essentially makes my deck worthless as well....same question as above.

3) any random advice for the deck i'm playin with?

Offline killsdazombies

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79246#msg79246
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 02:45:20 am »
well i would add another rustler just incase of bad draws. now for your questions
well..... ya have to deal with fire shield.
2- thats only the upgraded earth shield, i dont see it much in pvp but ai5 drops it 1/66 chance.

PhuzzY LogiK

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79261#msg79261
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 03:05:06 am »
1) it seems like a simple fire wall (the one that deals 1 damage to the attackers) destroys my deck...are there any ways around that or just something i have to accept?
I can see how Firewall would hurt you a bit, but it shouldn't be an automatic loss.  You should still have a chance to overrun them with the number of creatures you can put out (since Firewall doesn't block any damage).  Use your Fog Shield rather than Hope, hold a Rustler until you have 10+ light quantum, and then just start pumping out the Fireflies.  Repeat.

[Edit:  Sorry, was thinking of Leaf Dragons that have 3 HP.  Your Rustlers would die before you could convert your Light Quanta.  If you upgrade them, the above strategy will work.  With the Rustlers, you only have your mark to fuel you, but I still think it can be done, especially if you have a pool of Life quanta built up.  If you see a Firewall played and you have a Rustler out, drain its ability before he attacks and dies.]

2) the more advanced computer fights (lvl 5 and up) drop walls that absorb up to 3 damage per creature....which essentially makes my deck worthless as well....same question as above.
Every deck has a few weaknesses.  This is one of yours.  Nothing's perfect. ;D

3) any random advice for the deck i'm playin with?
The Thunderstorm seems kind of random.  I would replace it with another Rustler (if you're consistently short on Life quanta), another Empathetic Bond (if you find you need more health a lot), or a Shockwave (more efficient creature control until you get your Owl's Eye up).

Bender74d

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79264#msg79264
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 03:07:12 am »
well i would add another rustler just incase of bad draws. now for your questions
well..... ya have to deal with fire shield.
2- thats only the upgraded earth shield, i dont see it much in pvp but ai5 drops it 1/66 chance.
Thanks for the advice...and since i actually just aquired my first 1500 gold i was looking at what to upgrade, and theres not much in the deck that an upgrade helps....i think a rustler would be the best bet to buy me some time against that fire shield

Bender74d

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79265#msg79265
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 03:08:56 am »
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I can see how Firewall would hurt you a bit, but it shouldn't be an automatic loss.  You should still have a chance to overrun them with the number of creatures you can put out (since Firewall doesn't block any damage).  Use your Fog Shield rather than Hope, hold a Rustler until you have 10+ light quantum, and then just pumping out the Fireflies.  Repeat.
wouldnt the rustler die when it attacks?

PhuzzY LogiK

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79267#msg79267
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 03:10:53 am »
wouldnt the rustler die when it attacks?
Yeah, it would.  You caught me while I was editing my post. :P  My bad.

finkel

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79659#msg79659
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 06:08:29 pm »
Feel free to skip the pretty pictures!

First, the deck I came up with after tweaking yours:
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5bt 5bt 5bt 5bv 5bv 5bv 5bv 5c6 5c6 5lk 5lk 5lk 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oi 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ol 5olThe first AI5 I went up against was an earth deck. I played a single air pillar. eathquake. I play another. Earthquake. And another, same deal. By the time I managed to play a firefly queen, I was at half health, and I couldn't quite recover in time.

The second I went up against was a typical darkness deck that liquid shadowed it's gargoyles (clever). Of course, as soon as I got my hope shield up, it was toast.

I've included two screenshots to show some strategy. I started my turn with 8 life quanta and no more room. I drew a dragon, so I sniped a firefly and clicked a rustler to make room for a dragon. You can also kill your own antimattered fireflies or dragons (doing this saved the game for me against a really annoying entropy AI5. I broke through the diss shield and killed him with 1 card left in my deck).
(http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd66409/FFQ_win) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd66410/FFQ_win_making_room_for_a_drag)


Explanation:
-Hope is an extremely important card to this deck. You're spot on with the two empathetic bonds, since drawing one isn't as important as drawing a hope, but the elemental mastery is nice, and bonds are the best card in the game for that.

-There's no easy way to get around fire shield. Convert as much :light to :life as possible whenever you can. Play your rustler ASAP, but only after you've played a firefly, so that there's something to convert. Don't ever play it before your FFQ, since your FFQ can soak up more damage than a rustler, and your opponent is likely to spend any CC he has on that FFQ. However, since rustlers die a lot, it's good to have 5.

-Hope is an extremely important card in this deck! On average you'll draw one every 15 cards, or on your eighth turn. Way too late. Three will net you one, on average, every 10 cards. perfect. You'll draw one, on average, on your third turn. That's plenty frequent. On a very important note: play you hope ASAP. Don't convert all your light quanta away! make sure to save some (7, to be exact) for the hope!

-Drop the fog shields. No need.

-Fire shield is indeed annoying, but definitely beatable. If your opponent plays it before you have a substantial amount of quanta, just quit. You have no chance. If, however, he plays it later in the game, convert as much quanta as possible before your rustler dies  :-[ and dolley out all the damage you can muster

-Emerald dragons. I recommend you carry 2 or 3. They will beat through damage-reducing shields that will halt your fireflies in their tracks or slow them down. Your fireflies will keep your hope shield plenty high while your dragons make short work of your opponent. these are also great for shields such as turtle, fog, dusk mantle, and permafrost, which can slow your attack down enough to deck you out.

-Owl's eye. I have two of them, and hey, flying weapons are  :air so I carry a flying weapon too. Having the ability to deal 6 damage to enemy creatures every turn makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

-10 pillars is plenty. Don't worry if you can't play your FFQs right away. If you have multiple rustlers, you may want to drop one to avoid discarding cards. Sometimes it's better to play the owl's eye(s) before the FFQ if there are mind flayers, octopi, etc. on the field.

-Again, there's no easy way of getting around spine carapace or fire shield. You have so many integral parts to your deck that adding in more cards and the quanta to fuel them would disrupt the balance, and though you'd have a shot against decks with dangerous shields, I think your win rate against other decks would drop too much. However, if you want to try it, you can change your mark to fire, include 4-5 emerald pillars, get rid of the dragons and possibly the owl's eyes (unless you don't mind having >30 cards -- I do), and play a few deflags. Before Hope, I always played FFQ with 4-5 empathetic bonds and 4-5 deflags.

-Finally, I replaced the thunderstorm with another owl's eye. Almost all of the creatures you might need to kill before playing your FFQ have more than 1 health. If you don't have another owl's eye or don't want to play one, repace it and the flying weapon with a couple of shockwaves. Once your deck is up and running, your hope shield will stop any and all damage, so you really don't need to kill enemy creatures.


Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks for posting :)

Bender74d

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79806#msg79806
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 09:06:52 pm »
Awsome advice finkle!

A few questions/comments...

I know you said that you have the dragons in there to beef up damage output, and its something i toyed around with for awhile, but i found that by the time i would get one out the combo is already in full swing and there's no real need for one.  If anything i also leaned more towards the azure dragons as opposed to the emerald as the deck ends up with a tone of unneeded air quantum way before its got extra life quantum.  I tried to go more towards securing the combo itself then going over the top with creatures.  Thats why i used the fog (to do a quick and easy damage reduction until the combo was going strong however using one actually slowed me down by a turn as it used my much needed air quantum) however i did notice that in pvp players would waist thier time targeting my fog so that my owl's eye was a little more secure.  As far as those three slots go, i may drop one and add that extra rustler, but i'm still undecided on what exactly to do with the other two slots. 

IF i had another owl's eye, it would deffenatly go into this deck.  In fact the lightning storm i had in my deck was what would of been pulled out for it.  However shockwave does seem like a much better option for the time being.  I'm actually kinda impartial on the flying weapon....i really don't like my owl's eye being messed with, and making it a creature just adds to the possibilities for that.

That being said, i have three spots to play with (two emerald dragons and the flying weapon) which will be fun to try and find a solid fit.  However i now have a new question...what priority would you upgrade?  I know the queens would never get upgraded, and theres no real rush for any of the other cards.  As far as i can tell, the two cards that should be upgraded first would be the rustlers or my pillars.

PhuzzY LogiK

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg79940#msg79940
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 12:08:06 am »
Since you said you had a ton of extra air quanta, I would make the Rustlers a priority upgrade.  That will help with the Firewall situation as well.

finkel

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg80030#msg80030
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 01:48:18 am »
@Bender: I didn't think about that, great point. The earlier you can get damage out against a damage-reduction shield the bigger your chance to finish your opponent before decking out. I chose emerald because it had 1 higher attack than azure and :life was abundant mid-game, which is when I drop the dragons to help speed things up.

I dropped fog shields because I prefer to get the combo out ASAP as opposed to stalling for it. That's the main reason I prefer to play RoL/Hope and nymphomania decks to rainbows, because the stalling isn't any fun to me, and I hate just waiting. This deck simply can't accumulate 7 quanta before usually turn 3, so a fog shield would just delay that another turn. It does help stall, but that's assuming you draw it, and I decided it wasn't worth it. You will probably get a slightly higher win rate with it because of the early rushes you survive, but I'm not sure either way.

Owl's eye is a 5/7 flying, so creature control isn't usually a threat to it. Flying it early is really helpful since your opponent has to kill it before playing any creatures with less than 4 health, which draws the fire from your FFQs (this is important for the tense turns that you're generating fireflies. If you only get, say, four out, before your FFQs are mutated, etc., you're in trouble if your opponent drops heavy-hitters before you can get going again with another FFQ.

Upgrading: First of all, don't upgrade the FFQs! ^_^
leave the hopes unupped too, because light quanta is a big issue in the beginning. Next, play as many fireflies as possible every turn unless your opponent is packing massive CC and a bonewall or something shitty like that. If you do the math, you'll see that you will end up with the same amount of light quanta if you convert and play fireflies or just wait.

Definitely upgrade the rustlers first. They'll survive thunderstorms, gasses, early drain lifes, and ice bolts, and you will be able to drop one against a fire shield and convert for two turns in peace. Problem solved! :D

I wouldn't recommend you spend money on upgrading pillars in this deck since air pillars aren't used in most FG farming decks and I suggest you save your money to build one, but if you'd rather play this deck, then by all means upgrade the pillars.

Glad I could be of help :)

Bender74d

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg80041#msg80041
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 02:01:30 am »
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I wouldn't recommend you spend money on upgrading pillars in this deck since air pillars aren't used in most FG farming decks and I suggest you save your money to build one, but if you'd rather play this deck, then by all means upgrade the pillars.

Glad I could be of help


Actually...thats a funny story, up until about 5 minutes ago, i was going to.  I had originally started as light and went up against a firefly deck.  I thought it was a really neat idea so i rerolled as air and built the deck you saw above.  This was all before i found the forums and chat.  Now i'm not so sure this is going to be the final deck for me lol.  I started looking at some FG decks, but they use allot of upgraded cards and weapons that i don't have (the only "unupped" deck i saw used the light weapon)  so untill i get the money/cards to build somthing else i think i'm stuck with this one hehehe.

Also on a side note, i was thinking of putting in some upgraded photons a little later for the free/quick creature and light quantums.

*edit*
as far as the fogs go, i noticed that on average i get 3 pillars on the first turn...so by turn three i have 9 air quantums enough for the queen, and a fog at any time before that.

finkel

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Re: My variation of the firefly deck...with a few questions.... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7289.msg80435#msg80435
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 06:58:36 pm »
In that case, definitely make room for fog shields :)
They're by far one of the most annoying shields in the game, especially when a rainbow with no more than 2-3 quanta per element drops one right after you black hole it D:<

There are several mostly-unupgraded decks that can beat false gods. Among them are Ray of light/fractal/Hope, nymphomania (nymph's tears+purple and black pillars to make nymphs), and small rainbow decks (Puppychow's works well, but the games drag on too long for my taste).

Good luck!

 

blarg: