[Poll] Remove Shards from FG decks?

[Marvaddin]

With Elements 1.30, now 2 FGs, Akebono and Osiris, have Shards in their decks: 2 (4 with doubled deck) Shard of Focus to each one.

For me this is completelly unwelcome.

1st, because AI never had used shards, except for Arena, so called 'asynchronous PVP'. I always imagined shards as player-only cards, made to counter a bit all those AI (higher levels) advantages. This is my opinion, but I suppose this is true to most of us.

2nd, because its an unnecessary balance. Everyone knows that heavy PC FGs are usually the worst of them. There are already 7 FGs that use Explosion (the most used card), and 5 that use Steal (Chaos Lord and Rainbow have both). Most of them have 4 PC cards counting with doubled deck, like Graviton, Octane, Hecate or Decay. Eternal Phoenix, Jezebel have 8. Some like Hermes are extreme: 12 PC cards. But this in a gigantic deck, and to use them he needs to draw them. But SoF is too much card advantage for a FG, which already has a lot of advantages. 3 cards of your deck dead, and a lot of quant lost, due to 1 card?

Seriously, its like: Q: what do you do when Obliterator puts a PAed Pulverizer in play at turn 2? (or, what do you do when Dream Catcher have a quinted abomination with BE in turn 2?) > A: auto quit. Its frustration to its extreme. Now Akebono / Osiris, for a mere cost of 5, can put in play a card that will destroy 3 permanents for free in 3 turns (which you need to wait if there is a vital permanent you need to play), towers at minimum, and you will still be black holed in the end. What can you do against this? If you dont have a Lobotomizer, you are dead, because with 15 HP, any CC you use will just grant an aditional charge.

Just to remember what people have voted in 'Nerf or Buff?' thread in FGs forum:

Akebono results:
Buff: 4
Nerf: 4
Leave Akebono as he is: 28

I, myself, Im sure Akebono is a dificult FG for most strategies. He focus on big, growing and momentuned creatures that are also resistant to CC (very very very high HP).

Osiris results:
Nerf: 1
Buff: 4
Osiris is fine the way he is: 10

Osiris is surely weaker, and 'maybe' could use a buff. Of course his extreme CC strategy partially fails because anti FG decks usually use quint, and he doesnt have serious critters. I could live with him having some Ghosts or Dragons, maybe Chimera. But SoF, that will make a lot of people auto quit just by hitting the table? OMG, noooooo.

So, its this. Im trying to gather some support, so we can maybe ask zanz to not make fighting FGs more frustrating. At least, there are other ways to balance them, if needed, without requiring something so 'extreme'.

[furballdn]

1. Just because AI never uses shards doesn't mean they can't suddenly start using them now.

2. I disagree. Giving SoFo to akebono at the very least (not sure about Osiris) seems to be a good idea imo, since akebono was lacking on PC, and letting him use black hole (an almost iconic gravity card). I just beat akebono right now using a completely unupped deck, and did not find him that hard.

[Sevs]

I am going to disagree and well, Permanents are the only way to "stall" the FG long enough to gain an advantage. (SoSac, Sundial, Dim shield, Permafrost(CCYB)) If FG's dont have PC (Ferox, Fire Queen, Paradox) they tend to be the easier gods. and in the interest of keeping some gods creative, the easier gods could use some shards to stay powerful.

In fact It would be kind of cool to see paradox with shard of Freedom

[furballdn]

I am going to disagree and well, Permanents are the only way to "stall" the FG long enough to gain an advantage. (SoSac, Sundial, Dim shield, Permafrost(CCYB)) If FG's dont have PC (Ferox, Fire Queen, Paradox) they tend to be the easier gods. and in the interest of keeping some gods creative, the easier gods could use some shards to stay powerful.

In fact It would be kind of cool to see paradox with shard of Freedom

Oh gosh. now that you mention it, paradox would be absolutely frightening with mass shards of freedom.

[silinda]

I've been pushing to have them give AI shards to make it somewhat possible to get while grinding AI over arena...can't tell them to take them out now that I finally got my wish...lol

[mesaprotector]

When I saw this title, I was like  Shards for FGs? No way!

With Elements 1.30, now 2 FGs, Akebono and Osiris, have Shards in their decks: 2 (4 with doubled deck) Shard of Focus to each one.

For me this is completelly unwelcome.

1st, because AI never had used shards, except for Arena, so called 'asynchronous PVP'. I always imagined shards as player-only cards, made to counter a bit all those AI (higher levels) advantages. This is my opinion, but I suppose this is true to most of us.

Agreed! Shards should never be used by FGs; if I remember correctly that was the original point of shards, to give players advantages over the AI, including FGs. If you disagree, would you favor Zanz adding a FG using SoSa to the game? There's a reason why shards are banned in most PvP events.

2nd, because its an unnecessary balance. Everyone knows that heavy PC FGs are usually the worst of them. There are already 7 FGs that use Explosion (the most used card), and 5 that use Steal (Chaos Lord and Rainbow have both). Most of them have 4 PC cards counting with doubled deck, like Graviton, Octane, Hecate or Decay. Eternal Phoenix, Jezebel have 8. Some like Hermes are extreme: 12 PC cards. But this in a gigantic deck, and to use them he needs to draw them. But SoF is too much card advantage for a FG, which already has a lot of advantages. 3 cards of your deck dead, and a lot of quant lost, due to 1 card?

I actually disagree with this, but I think the best fix is to add more FGs which are difficult for the most successful strategies. For example, add an FG which uses Purify extensively, or a deckout FG with tons of healing. (Remember, Ferox is an auto-quit for SoSa-Dial and SPlat, and Ferox has no control whatever.) Or an FG with 6 silences, to give Instosis a headache.

Please, Zanz, don't give FGs shards. It goes against everything that was good about shards, and will move the game in a direction many of us don't want to go. 

[dspn23]

are you kiding?? nobody have doubt soF is extreamly powerfull and should be nerfed however just because god's have a unuped counter does not mean they are easy (only if you know you will play against them (wich hapens only once a day) in my opinion this shards are here just to give players some of them and will be removed in some days from today...
however SOf and many other shards like SOsa SOse SOvoid and SOdivinity should be nerfed the problem is only in there
in long run shards should not be used by false gods

[Marvaddin]

1. Just because AI never uses shards doesn't mean they can't suddenly start using them now.

2. I disagree. Giving SoFo to akebono at the very least (not sure about Osiris) seems to be a good idea imo, since akebono was lacking on PC, and letting him use black hole (an almost iconic gravity card). I just beat akebono right now using a completely unupped deck, and did not find him that hard.

1. Ok, them lets also give some shards to AI 3 and make the farming a bit less painful. If AI using shards is something we should have, lets not use it just to make hard things harder, huh?

2. Why not give him Black Hole cards instead? Does he really need PC? Hes not weak, is he? Maybe you can describe your game, to ilustrate it better.

I am going to disagree and well, Permanents are the only way to "stall" the FG long enough to gain an advantage. (SoSac, Sundial, Dim shield, Permafrost(CCYB)) If FG's dont have PC (Ferox, Fire Queen, Paradox) they tend to be the easier gods. and in the interest of keeping some gods creative, the easier gods could use some shards to stay powerful.

In fact It would be kind of cool to see paradox with shard of Freedom

1st, lets assume, there will always be FGs that are more beatable than others. But of course, permanents are needed to the player stall. So, non-PC FGs are usually easier, ok. But what Im saying is that PC sgould be used in a moderate ammount. Look, 1 SoF can destroy almost same number of cards that all explosions Graviton have, and still give a Black Hole, you are delayed 4x for a single card. This is not what I would qualify as adequate. How many decks could survive to 2 SoFs? This is 6 explosions +2 Black Hole, mate.

If they were so weak, we could make them powerful again with another changes that are not this extreme. I doubt Akebono need a buff, and Osiris has a problem because of his low damage, this could be changed. This is stay powerful, not make the player quit.

If we really are going to have this, them 2 SoF is more than enough, 4 in these short decks is simply too much.

[eaglgenes101]

I want the reverse. SoR for Jezebel!
(But don't just throw them in without thought.)

[furballdn]

1. Just because AI never uses shards doesn't mean they can't suddenly start using them now.

2. I disagree. Giving SoFo to akebono at the very least (not sure about Osiris) seems to be a good idea imo, since akebono was lacking on PC, and letting him use black hole (an almost iconic gravity card). I just beat akebono right now using a completely unupped deck, and did not find him that hard.

1. Ok, them lets also give some shards to AI 3 and make the farming a bit less painful. If AI using shards is something we should have, lets not use it just to make hard things harder, huh?

2. Why not give him Black Hole cards instead? Does he really need PC? Hes not weak, is he? Maybe you can describe your game, to ilustrate it better.

1. AI3 has nymphs and so do FGs but how come you're not complaining about that? If the shards fit thematically and well inside a FG deck, then I think it should be there.

2. Akebono does need PC because the only way he can get around dim shield and sundials are his titan (and 2 unstoppables as well as chimera). My game with akebono was just using liquid/antimatter styled nymph tears deck. Akebono is still laughably easy with the liquid antimatter combo.

[Kuroaitou]

I believe that shards SHOULDN'T be part of False Gods for a different reason: theme.

False Gods are supposedly the 'embodiment' of terrible deities that are claiming to be omnipotent and omniscient beings of virtuous power, but instead cause mass destruction, chaos, and deception in the Elemental world. The shards, in contrast, are representations of virtues (Freedom, Bravery, Sacrifice, Gratitude, etc.) that are meant to be symbols of what the player's attributes represent, and thus, are supposedly the 'real' essence of good will. I can understand that some False Gods might seem okay with one or two Shards (Akebono having Focus does make sense, since he pours all of his concentration in generating and killing you head on), but even then, I feel that FGs having shards seems wrong for thematic reasons, considering they're supposedly corrupt gods.

[Silver]

Shards are basically cheat codes you have to grind for.

edit: well ok not really that's just me putting out a soundbite without any backing evidence. a couple of the shards are really lame but most of them are balanced/up.

Real answer: False Gods are suppose to be all thematic and cool to play against and think about. Shards are bland incarnate. Shards add no fun to play against, and they're only fun to use because some of them are op.