'Idea Redundancy' - Refining/Limiting Overused Concepts

[Kuroaitou]

I've been wanting to make this topic for a very long time, so here it goes.

There's a been a major trend I've been seeing as of late within the Card Ideas & Art board. For what it's worth, creativity is admirable; originality even more so. Before this sub-board was created, the plethora of card ideas was practically endless and as long as you had an imagination, you were set to go. Nowadays, it seems that there have been several conflicts between different card authors about their ideas either being directly or partially 'copied' or recreated, which have led to arguments over who created what first, who deserves credit should the card advance, and, most importantly, if the idea is considered 'original' enough to be a derivative of the overlying mechanic.

I can't always be the judge of when certain mechanics are either too similar or barely distinct enough to be advanced to the poll system. However, I do want to bring up this issue of when a major 'theme' begins dominating the polls and becomes a recurrence among card ideas. Some of us may subconsciously forget about an idea that we liked and may accidentally recreate that same idea. Other times, two or more people can literally come up with the same card without being exposed to each other's. In either case, there is one major theme that's been permeating the polls in different flavors from time to time, and many of them have advanced due to technicalities on their mechanic.

As OldTrees stated (in chat): Large Theme + Popular Concept = Surge of Innovation.

The theme is the manipulation of skills.

What's this popular concept? The ability to copy (Mimic), 'steal' (Theft), or use (Command) an already existing creature/card's ability in-game for their own purposes.

Here's a list of cards that have been organized by their so called concepts:


COMMAND (Using another card's ability)


MIMICING (Copying another card's ability either directly (ability only) or automatically (becoming the card)


THEFT (Removing the ability from that creature and gaining the ability in the process)



There are several other ideas that also copy these ideas (and are either archived/still in the Crucible/Forge or have never been submitted). Feel free to post them here so I can compile them in the example above!

While there needs to be a system to help both veteran and newbie card designers alike to avoid recreating concepts that have already been well-defined and voted up in polls, in the meantime, I would like to bring up some questions: how do we refine popular concepts so that their mechanics do not become overused and reused on card ideas with barely any changes between them? (Making card ideas distinct enough when they follow the 'copy another card's ability!' concept) - What should the community do when they notice a trend in card ideas that follow such a concept? And most importantly, are there any other popular recurring concepts that are starting to overwhelm the polls?



Please discuss.



Sorry about the quality of this post. I just felt that this needed to get out there so as to bring up the discussion of redundant ideas that have been submitted to the polls and/or created in Level 0 without any checking of these concepts.

[artimies7]

I have noticed this. Perhaps some sort of automated checker? Or a compilation of abilities that have already been added, with a little box for typing and a button for submitting it to the list?

Just thinking out loud.

[Rutarete]

I remember seeing a surge of redundancy a while ago (close to a year, I think), but then forgot about it.
As for a filter, why not add this to the READ THIS FIRST topic? I think people would see it there because that's where the OP code is.

As for me, here's one I found in my portfolio (currently in crucible):

[OldTrees]

There are two classes of this problem.

The first class is with a narrow but popular theme. This results in people repeating past ideas with no significant differences. A fix for this is in progress with the card database. In the meantime we as members of the CIA can help point out repetition and to encourage people using the search engine.

The second class is more of a concern at this point. The second class is with a broad and popular theme. In this class there can be several gem card suggestions that could arise. The problem arises when too many of these ideas dominate the polls. The over enthusiasm for these ideas also reduces the scrutiny each of the cards should have gone under.

Some goals for this thread are:
1) To further clarify when a card is significantly different. (Though a definition is unlikely to be found)
Ex: Blue Mage & Identity Theft are not Crusader and Algrator might be.

2) How can we ensure the second class get sufficient scrutiny to weed out all but the best?
Ex: Manipulating skills

@Kuro
Tomb is a revival card not a manipulate skill card.

[Tiko]

Well, I think the most self-evident solution for avoiding idea-remakes would be, if the person, who wants to post (another) card idea would just look around at least in the already running polls, as it is already stated in the 'Read This' topic.

It's also a good idea to look at some of the other ideas in the Card Ideas and Art section before posting yours, to avoid posting an idea that has been posted already by someone else.

It's not that of a big deal looking through the active polls as there aren't that many (except maybe the Crucible ones), and even by doing that one may gain inspiration. Highlighting that line above, and/or adding it to the Crucible Candidate opening post or several other places throughout the CIA board could help a bit.

Also, maybe limiting down the amount of cards one can post or candidate (i.e: one per week, just saying something) may force the creator to spend more time/thoughts on that single card which he wants to impress the community and Zanz with. But that may prove harsh seeing many 'card creators' spend most of their forum time making cards one after the other.

[Bhlewos]

I would also be averse to limiting submissions to once per week -- a more direct and effective solution IMO would be what Rutarete and Tiko proposed, which would be to put it in READ THIS FIRST. It won't make every single person read it, but it's better than not putting it out there at all.

I personally use the search function a lot, but -- and this is just an observation, I don't presume to know a lot about the CIA forum -- it doesn't seem like there's a central discussion area for card idea creators to get together. Community Card Design and "Steal My Idea" are sort of examples of this but it feels like most people who post in the CIA aren't exposed to many fellow card creators and their ideas. Those who actively go through the polls and other members' card ideas themselves are the minority.

On the other hand, a central discussion area might be unnecessary since I imagine people would only post to promote their ideas (which is done in chat) or do what they've been doing in Pre-Smithy which is proposing partially-formed ideas...but outside of putting a disclaimer in READ THIS FIRST I don't see what we could do to get people to look up old cards themselves before submitting.

Speaking of which, this could be added to the list as well -- in my defense I did it for a competition rather than Crucible, but that doesn't excuse my failing to search thoroughly for existing similar concepts.

[EmeraldTiger]

I think the Sync.in boards help to some degree.