Mephistopheles

[Bhlewos]

"I am the hole in things, the enemy, the piece that can never fit, there since the beginning."
--Dr. Simon Hurt.
(cookie to Desert Knight and Higurashi, fellow Batman fans =])


Art originally by kometani from deviantart

It started with a discussion in chat about why Dark Matter had Light as its second element. We then started brainstorming possible Darkness-Gravity duos, until Napalm suggested Black Hole-Pests. Knowing that combo would be weak to mono decks, I threw in Earthquake as well, and made it a trio. Anyway, after some revisions, here's Mephistopheles version 3:

by Bhlewos

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74f 74f 74f 74f 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 77f 77f 77j 77j 77j 77j 78q 78q 78q 78q 78q 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7ta 7ta 7tf 7tf 7tf 7tf 7tf 7tf 8pt

And below, the tests:
First game:

The loss wasn't very surprising to me as CCYB hasn't done well with previous trials. The one thing I do want to say is I'm surprised Gargoyles haven't been featured in FG decks before. Coinich was right when he said more Gargoyles was a good idea; they're great heavy hitters and relatively cheap.

Second game:

Now this was the surprise. Looking at just the bottom half of the screen the game looks like one you'd see against any other FG. The interesting thing was that Mephistopheles had plenty of Black Holes in the early game, but it was its lack of early Earth Pends or Pests that did it in. I got out a Sanc then a Pulvy, and after that it was pretty easy setting up my combo. I didn't have to worry about PA-ing my Sanc because when Mephistopheles got out his own Pulvies, I had that one turn warning which made a huge difference. In fact, at this point I was starting to wonder if I made this deck too weak.

First game:

Horrible. My worries were put to rest as Mephistopheles put down a second turn BH and EQ. It became a spacebar game pretty quickly. One thing I should note is the AI uses EQ on Pillars first instead of Pulvy, which IMO should be the smarter option. Whatever.

Second game:

I think this is the best measurement of the changes I've made to the deck, since RoL-Hope has fared consistently against the BH-Pest-EQ trio. The RNG played a huge hand in this, of course -- no Gravity Pends for the poor guy till turn 9 -- and by then I'd gotten out one Fractal -- the only one you need against this guy. One Hope and two Dragons later, and this became a spacebar game again, but a rather satisfying one.

Marvaddin gets credit for suggesting the VNG as a hard counter to Mephistopheles. In fact it works great: because pillars aren't crucial to the VNG's success, running off of Cremation, I didn't have to worry about EQ and Pulvy. The instant quanta generation also solved the Pests and the Black Holes, so that the game became a rush of  creatures versus a Gargoyle rush. The winner was basically determined by who got their creatures out first.

First game:

Mephistopheles was slightly faster in this one.

Second game:

I was lucky to get two Cremations within the first two turns, so I won this one, though it was close.

Possible changes:
 - Adding Steel Golem
 - Adding Wardens
 - Adding Earth Pends to account for slow early game
 - Switching Pends to Towers to account for overabundance of  quanta in late game
 - Replacing Pulverizers with Steals, also to account for overabundance of  quanta in late game

---

by Bhlewos

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74b 74f 74f 74f 74f 74f 74f 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 77b 77j 77j 77j 77j 77j 77j 78q 78q 78q 78q 78q 7t5 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t9 7t9 7t9 7t9 7t9 7t9 7th 7ti 7ti 8pt

(Extra ?? card is the mark, for easy importing in Trainer)

The Obsidian and Basalt Dragons were thrown in for damage (otherwise it would be a very slow, stalemated game), and the Elite Otyugh for CC. The Cloaks were for protection, the Nightmare for added denial, and then I threw in 12 Steals for maximum ragequit power.

I've tested it with RoL-Hope and tttt's Contemporary CCYB (no screenshots for the latter, as I tested it against an imperfect Yoink!~; will add more after testing).

First game:

Not the best game for testing purposes, I know, but I'll replace it with a better screenshot later. My only mistake (and a crippling one) was playing the Electrocutor early, which Yoink!~ of course promptly stole. There was then a few turns in which it waited for a Gravity Pend and its single Pest frustratingly kept my  quanta at 8 while I whittled away at his HP 2 at a time. I finally Fractalled my RoLs, but I didn't have a Hope, which could've possibly helped my chances. The stolen Electrocutor lobotomized my RoL's one by one, and though the  quanta wasn't an issue Yoink!~'s repeated use of BH's and its one Nightmare kept me from drawing a Hope in time. I never got enough  quanta for another Fractal for the rest of the game, since Yoink!~ had gotten his denial combo rolling.

Second game:

A bit better, I didn't make the same stupid mistake, and I even had a Hope right from the start but unfortunately Yoink!~ also had a better opening hand. Right from the start he ruthlessly used BH and Quicksand, so that I couldn't do anything other than play RoL's. Of course the turn after Yoink!~ played his Otyugh, and his continued denial made it so I could do nothing as his Dragons at chunks out of my HP. The last Nightmare with his Otyugh was just rubbing salt in my wounds.
First game:

My only win. I was really lucky this game because Yoink!~ didn't get a single heavy-hitter, and I put down a PA'd Sanc by the sixth turn. From then on I SN'd to my heart's content, sent out a Destroyer, an FFQ, then another Destroyer (Quinted to "dodge" the Otyugh). Won with almost full health.

Second game:

Horrible. Yoink!~ got out its combo second turn. Didn't see a Sanc the entire time. The game basically consisted of me tapping spacebar and discarding every turn until my eventual loss.

Third game:

Another loss, but quicker this time, since Yoink!~ got out both its Obsidian Dragons and a Basalt. I think there were at least two Pests and an Otyugh before the final blow. Again, I could do nothing without a Sanc and a PA together, so I could only skip all my turns.

by Bhlewos

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745 74b 74f 74f 74f 74f 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 77a 77b 77j 77j 77j 77j 78q 78q 78q 78q 78q 7t5 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t9 7t9 7t9 7ta 7tf 7tf 7th 7ti 7ti 8pt

Then I played against it with RoL-Hope, here are the results:

First game:

I managed one Fractal before he really got his combo rolling -- most notably I realized he doesn't have that many pendulums, so that you usually get the first 2 turns without anything interfering with your quanta generation. Of course once he did get his combo out, I couldn't play another Fractal, and his damage slowly chunked away at my HP. But compared to v.1 I did much better, managing to put down a Hope and both Dragons before I lost.

Second game:

Started with four Aether Towers in my hand but didn't play them for fear of EQ...of course considering the above revelation I might've done better had I said "screw it" and spammed all of them to get a second-turn Fractal.
The Cloak's blocking it but he had five Pests and one Gargoyle, powered by Eclipse. The last turn I threw up a Hope, then that RoL in my hand which made it so I would've gotten 1 damage a turn (Hope blocking 8 damage from Gargoyle's 9 ATK) . Of course the RNG was being devious (as always) and gave Yoink!~ an Obsidian Dragon and a Sapphire Charger, which finished me off.

Overall much better results, I felt like I had a chance (going to try the Tower-rush tactic and see if I can win like that), and certainly not the spacebar game I had with prior testing.

[Hyroen]

Yoink!~ doesn't come across to me as one of the best False God name there could be for this deck.

[Bhlewos]

Do you have any suggestions? Any feedback on the deck itself?

[Selvaria]

Do you have any suggestions? Any feedback on the deck itself?

What about Resonator or Cavity?

[Marvaddin]

...and then I threw in 12 Steals for maximum ragequit power.

I dont think FGs should be like that. We all know how its possible to create almost invincible FGs to normal FG farmers. Players should be able to beat them, or there is no point having them. Jezebel has already 8 steals, you really think 12 is necessary?

And in fact, we already have difficult FGs that use Quicksand (Seism) and Black Hole (Dark Matter) as their main cards, and some that have Steals. I dont think that put together nasty strategies of already difficult FGs is fine.

Beyond that, the game would be slow and boring, because he has just a few critters. Just 2 AM (supposing you can get enough quanta) would completelly nulify its damage.

Sorry, I think its a crappy idea.

[Bhlewos]

Harsh, much? =P It's okay, you're right FGs should be playable. Leave the ragequit decks to Platinum League.

I took Napalm's advice and made some changes to the deck...took out 2 EQs and BHs each, added Pests, and some damage; notably Gargoyles which FGs don't have.

by Bhlewos

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745 74b 74f 74f 74f 74f 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 77a 77b 77j 77j 77j 77j 78q 78q 78q 78q 78q 7t5 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t9 7t9 7t9 7ta 7tf 7tf 7th 7ti 7ti 8pt

Then I played against it with RoL-Hope, here are the results:

First game:

I managed one Fractal before he really got his combo rolling -- most notably I realized he doesn't have that many pendulums, so that you usually get the first 2 turns without anything interfering with your quanta generation. Of course once he did get his combo out, I couldn't play another Fractal, and his damage slowly chunked away at my HP. But compared to v.1 I did much better, managing to put down a Hope and both Dragons before I lost.

Second game:

Started with four Aether Towers in my hand but didn't play them for fear of EQ...of course considering the above revelation I might've done better had I said "screw it" and spammed all of them to get a second-turn Fractal.
The Cloak's blocking it but he had five Pests and one Gargoyle, powered by Eclipse. The last turn I threw up a Hope, then that RoL in my hand which made it so I would've gotten 1 damage a turn (Hope blocking 8 damage from Gargoyle's 9 ATK) . Of course the RNG was being devious (as always) and gave Yoink!~ an Obsidian Dragon and a Sapphire Charger, which finished me off.

Overall much better results, I felt like I had a chance (going to try the Tower-rush tactic and see if I can win like that), and certainly not the spacebar game I had with prior testing.

Let me know what you think, Marv, and if you think you have a chance with the new version. I'll try to think of a new name for this guy as well. Thanks for the feedback.

[Marvaddin]

It looks better, but still looks hard. I think 4 is the max PC a FG should have, because so it can create problem, but without being too hard. Considering he also has severe quanta denial, would need some adjusts.

I would remove: 1 Steal, 2 Pests, 1 Quicksand, 1 Black Hole, and add some random cards from each element, making it have like 45 cards. Would still be difficult, but more playable.

Other than that, looks like he produces too much Darkness quanta, you could use some towers instead of penduluns, or add more Darkness cards, maybe even some Siphon Life.

[Bhlewos]

Thanks for the feedback!

I'd prefer to keep the BH and Quicksand, having only 3 (6) each feels counterintuitive to me when that combo is supposed to be the main strategy of the FG. I'll switch some to Towers too (though I would prefer that FGs use more Pends so there's a better-than-zero chance of farming them), but Siphon Life is out of the question for me...AI often doesn't use it the right way.

I'll test v.3 tomorrow and post results here.

[Marvaddin]

Yeah, but having quicksand + black hole as main strategy is hard. It could have a more generic deck to use them.

[Bhlewos]

Listened to a lot of feedback from coinich and bucky, and took some of their advice to make this deck. Added Gargoyles and took out the miscellaneous creatures on coinich's suggestion, took out the Pests on bucky's, and replaced Pulverizers with Steals, which coinich suggested. I decided not to go with bucky's route of taking out all PCs and having only 3 of each denial card, as that would actually have left more of a vanilla deck of sorts IMO.

Here's the result:

by Bhlewos

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74f 74f 74f 74f 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 77f 77f 77j 77j 77j 77j 78q 78q 78q 78q 78q 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7ta 7ta 7tf 7tf 7tf 7tf 7tf 7tf 8pt

Overall change was made this deck more "farm-friendly" if you will, with only 8 types of cards rather than the jumble I had earlier which would've reduced drop rate.

Anyway, I took some more tests and here are the results. It might surprise you.

First game:

The loss wasn't very surprising to me as CCYB hasn't done well with previous trials. The one thing I do want to say is I'm surprised Gargoyles haven't been featured in FG decks before. Coinich was right when he said more Gargoyles was a good idea; they're great heavy hitters and relatively cheap.

Second game:

Now this was the surprise. Looking at just the bottom half of the screen the game looks like one you'd see against any other FG. The interesting thing was that Yoink!~ had plenty of Black Holes in the early game, but it was its lack of early Earth Pends or Pests that did it in. I got out a Sanc then a Pulvy, and after that it was pretty easy setting up my combo. I didn't have to worry about PA-ing my Sanc because when Yoink!~ got out his own Pulvies, I had that one turn warning which made a huge difference. In fact, at this point I was starting to wonder if I made this deck too weak.

First game:

Horrible. My worries were put to rest as Yoink!~ (the name is sounding less and less threatening the more I use it...kirch is its only fan. I really need to find a replacement) put down a second turn BH and EQ. It became a spacebar game pretty quickly. One thing I should note is the AI uses EQ on Pillars first instead of Pulvy, which IMO should be the smarter option. Whatever.

Second game:

I think this is the best measurement of the changes I've made to the deck, since RoL-Hope has fared consistently against the BH-Pest-EQ threesome. The RNG played a huge hand in this, of course -- no Gravity Pends for the poor guy till turn 9 -- and by then I'd gotten out one Fractal -- the only one you need against this guy. One Hope and two Dragons later, and this became a spacebar game again, but a rather satisfying one.

So, there it is -- I think this deck has become pretty balanced, and in fact may actually be too weak now -- it's like Dark Matter, once you survive the initial rush you're golden. But this one put up less of a fight. I think I may switch the Pends to Towers like coinich advised me, and add some Wardens for CC (don't remember who suggested that).

[oblivion1212]

some suggestions
=>add AW for PC brutality
=>add steals for even more PC brutality
--->doing this two, it's possible that CCYB users would just autoquit XD
=>add overdrive and/or momentum and/or grav force for abusing making evil good
use of extra  quanta
--->if you're gonna add grav force, go BB too, then voodoo doll, then, oh wait, never mind shakar XD

i see the mephisto part of the name..
where'd the pheles come from??

nice job on the deck, btw 

[Bhlewos]

Thanks! Mephistopheles is actually the full (original?) name, it's just that a lot of things in popular culture shorten it for some reason.

AWs, maybe. Steals, I decided not to add them -- it adds a whole new level of difficulty to the FG -- in fact I haven't won with any standard FG farmers with the Steal variation. With Pulverizers, you get that one turn to destroy or steal it, and maybe even two turns if Mephisto doesn't have enough quanta (something that happens often). I think I'll add a Pend or two though, since he often finds a shortage of it in the early and mid-game. Overdrives which cost 4 each might bring us back to the same problem of shortage though.