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Falling Empire - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342412#msg342412
« on: May 29, 2011, 12:27:12 am »
Falling Empire - Rules
Original idea by: The Mormegil   |   Developed by: The Mormegil   |   Art by: Scaredgirl   |   Organized by: The Mormegil

It is a dark time for the Thirteenth Empire. The Emperor is weakened and enemies abound, both on the inside and on the outside. Barbarians are raging on the northern glaciers while the coastline is ravaged by the troops of the Twelve; the Rebellion is gaining support and the Crime Lords are ready to take advantage of the confusion; corruption spreads in the Sacred Order and the court is full of betrayers. In a time like this, anybody could rise up to the top of the Empire. Will you be the one?

A long time ago, the twelve elements were ruled by twelve terrible Tyrants. These Tyrants, known as the Twelve, were waging war one against the other causing terrible grief upon the population. One day, a lone Elemental led a rebellion against the Tyrants: his name was Thanatos, and he is now known as the Thirteenth. His figure is legendary and everybody associates him with peace, strength and justice. His legacy is the Thirteenth Empire.
The Emperor is a reincarnation of Thanatos. In this moment, on the Throne of Bones, is sit the thirteenth incarnation, known as Thanatos XIII. His strength and might is what keep the vast Empire together. But... there are some problems.

During the Age of the Empire, technology evolved a lot. The first skyships were created, and with them, many new territories were explored. These territories were conquered by the Emperors Thanatos VI and VII, but this was a terrible mistake: the Empire was far too stretched and it began to creak. New powerful positions were created: the four Dukes, each with a great territory to govern. And lastly, new threats arrived: on the borders of the Empire, a race known as the Kawalla lives, and their Clan leaders aren't happy with the Empire. They live on banditry and pillage, but they are bond together by the Name and the Sword, and they are posing a great menace to the rule of an already weakened Emperor.

Meanwhile, the descendants of the Twelve are starting to move again, to take back the power they once held. They made a solemn Oath, and decided to ally against the Thirteenth. They won't stop until the Thirteenth is destroyed: they grouped together with common thieves and pirates and are leading the offensive from South.

The Emperor is blamed for all this, and a lot of people are starting to believe he isn't the true Emperor, but just a puppet. They are bonding under the flag of True Thanatos, who claims to have been swapped with the Emperor in his crib. This is known as the Rebellion, and it is one of the most pressing internal problems of the Empire.

The Emperor is sustained by religion: the Sacred Order, the Death Seekers, the Knights of Purity - many names identify this powerful organization, which effectively controls a good deal of the population and of the territory. Unfortunately, the Order is greedy and is becoming corrupted by power. Its members are trying to take over the Emperor too, and to pass the power on to a new Pope.

The only loyal servants of the Emperor are the Dukes... at least until they can overthrow the Emperor itself. They are also being enticed on this route by the Crime Lords, rulers of dark and illegal traffics inside the Empire. They would like to see one of their own on the throne, of course.


1. HOW TO SIGN UP?
Anyone with a forum and a chat account can sign up for this event. Start by reading the rules very carefully. Then sign up by posting on a separate sign up topic. If you cannot find a sign up topic, or if it is locked, this event is not currently active, and you will have to wait for it to restart.

Maximum amount of participants for this event is 36. If the event is full, you can still sign up as a reserve player, and will get a chance to join the event if any of the 36 players doesn't show up during round 1.

When you sign up, you will specify the faction you want to be part of. Factions will be formed on a first-come-first served base.


2. THE FACTIONS
Each faction has a number of different rules that identifies it; most importantly, it has a definite goal that it is required to reach in order to win the event.

THE BARBARIANS:
GOAL: The Barbarians win if they destroy civilization as we know it. They must eliminate every other faction in order to win.
WINNER: If the Barbarians win, the Icon will be awarded to the most powerful Clan leader: the one who killed most enemies.
NUMBER: 10

The Kawalla Barbarians are powerful and determined. They don't play little mind games and lowly tricks to get their job done. They are numerous and they can overthrow everything if they aren't stopped.

ELEMENTS: the Barbarians must use at least 6 cards in their decks that have a non-zero cost from one of these elements: :life :fire
LIMITATIONS: the Barbarians must use at least 12 Creature cards in each of their decks.
SPECIAL: the Barbarians cannot be subject to any special ability.
UPGRADES: the Barbarians can use up to 6 upgrades in each match.
VICTORY: if a Barbarian wins a battle, he may kill his opponent (eliminate).

THE TWELVE:
GOAL: the Twelve win if the Court is eliminated before they are and no other faction wins in the same moment.
WINNER: if the Twelve win, the Icon will be given to the one with the most Upgrades left.
NUMBER: 6

The Twelve are really powerful, but the Emperor is their bane. As long as he lives, they lose power. They need to act quickly, because if they don't, there will be troubles.

ELEMENTS: the Twelve must use at least 6 cards in their deck that have a non-zero cost from one of these elements: :water :air :entropy
LIMITATIONS: the Twelve must use only 30-cards decks. Also, they cannot win by deckout: if they do, it is counted as a draw.
SPECIAL: whenever one of the Twelve loses a match (not a whole battle: for instance, this applies twice if he has won 3-2 this round), he loses 2 Upgrades.
UPGRADES: the Twelve start out with 20 upgrades. They lose 4 upgrades at the end of every round.
VICTORY: if the Twelve win a battle, they may kill their opponent (eliminate).

THE REBELLION:
GOAL: the Rebels win if they manage to accumulate enough allies to overthrow the Emperor. If any Rebel has 20 upgrades or more at the end of a round, the rebels win.
WINNER: the Rebel with most upgrades gets the Icon.
NUMBER: 8

The Rebels are difficult to catch, and increase their power slowly over time. They are playing a war of attrition.

ELEMENTS: the Rebels must use at least 6 cards in their deck that have a non-zero cost from one of these elements: :time :earth
LIMITATIONS: the Rebels must use up to 4 copies of the same non-pillar card in their decks.
SPECIAL: the Rebels are helped by the population. They can hide up to three times during the event, avoiding the effects of a loss, but not twice in a row.
UPGRADES: the Rebels start with no upgrades. They gain one upgrade at the end of every round.
VICTORY: the Rebels are merciful, and do not kill. Every time the win, though, they gain more resources and volunteers: if a Rebel wins, he may use 4 more upgrades in the following matches.

THE CRIME LORDS:
GOAL: the Crime Lords want one of their men on the throne. They win if anyone of their men is the winning man. Attention: if the winner of the event would be Crime Lord, the winning faction is changed: for example, if the Crime Lord Rebel gets 20 upgrades, the Rebels do not win: the winning faction is the Crime Lords.
WINNER: while their goal is set individually, the Crime Lord that wins the Icon is the one with the most Influence when they win.
NUMBER: 4 (special); each Crime Lord is actually a member of the Rebels, the Sacred Order, the Court or the Twelve, one for each. He has access to the secret section of his own faction, and knows the name of every other Crime Lord.

The Crime Lords are infiltrates. They are subtle, and manage more information than any other faction. They may also influence the outcome of a battle.

ELEMENTS: the Crime Lords follow the rules of their main category.
LIMITATIONS: the Crime Lords follow the rules of their main category.
SPECIAL: the Crime Lords follow the rules of their main category. In addition, every Crime Lord may choose up to three battles each round (excluding their own) and ban three cards for one of the partecipants. The Event Organizer will notify this to the player. If after doing so, that player loses its match, the Crime Lord gains one Influence point.
UPGRADES: the Crime Lords follow the rules of their main category.
VICTORY: the Crime Lords follow the rules of their main category.

THE SACRED ORDER:
GOAL: the Sacred Order wins if one of their member has 20 or more upgrades at the end of the round.
WINNER: the one with most upgrades wins the Icon.
NUMBER: 8

The Sacred Order relies on favours to gain influence over the Empire. Beware their help, because you might end up doing them a greater favour than you'd like to.

ELEMENTS: the Sacred Order must use at least 6 cards in their deck that have a non-zero cost from one of these elements: :darkness :light
LIMITATIONS: the Sacred Order must use at least 6 Spell cards in their decks.
SPECIAL: the Sacred Order is corrupted: every round they may choose to grant part of their upgrades to another player in the Event. If they do so and that player wins, they get double those upgrades back at the start of the following round. They may not Corrupt another member of their ranks.
UPGRADES: the Sacred Order starts with 4 upgrades.
VICTORY: if the Sacred Order wins, their opponent cannot use upgrades for one round.

THE COURT:
GOAL: the Court wins if they are the last faction standing.
WINNER: if the Court wins, the remaining players challange each other in a small tournament, and the winner is given the Icon.
NUMBER: 4

The Dukes are excellent swordsmen, with great tactical insight and powerful weapons. They are strong. They tend to be honourable though.

ELEMENTS: the Court must use at least 6 cards in their deck that have a non-zero cost from one of these elements: :death :aether :gravity
LIMITATIONS: the Court has no limitations.
SPECIAL: the Court must answer truthfully three questions on their deck before playing a match (not a whole battle, every single match) with "yes" or "no". If a question cannot be answered with yes or no, their opponent can ask another question.
UPGRADES: the Court may use up to 12 upgrades.
VICTORY: if a Duke wins a battle, he may kill his opponent (eliminate).

THE FACTIONSTHE BARBARIANSTHE TWELVETHE REBELLIONTHE SACRED ORDERTHE COURTTHE CRIME LORDS
GOALKill EveryoneDestroy the CourtGain 20 UpgradesGain 20 UpgradesKill Everyone***
WINNERMost KillsMost UpgradesMost UpgradesMost UpgradesHonourable TournamentMost Influence
NUMBER106884***
ELEMENTS:life :fire:entropy :water :air:time :earth:light :darkness:gravity :aether :death***
LIMITATIONS12 Creatures30 cards, no deckout4 copies max6 SpellsNone***
SPECIALImmunityPower LossEscapeCorruptHonorInfluence
UPGRADES620-0+4+12***
VICTORYKillKillRecruitmentDeprivationKill***
*** = the Crime Lords follow the rules of their faction; see the Crime Lord section for more information.


3. MATCHES
This event will have a random seeding that will determine the opponents of a given round. If there is an uneven number of players left in the event, a random player will skip its match.


4. DUELS
Players have 4 days to make the fight happen. They must contact their opponent using a PM, and try to find a time that suits both. If the fight doesn't happen, both players lose by default, unless one player is clearly more active in trying to find a suitable time. Event organizer will determine who the most active player was, and his or her word is final.

Battles are best-of-five. The first player who wins 3 individual matches, wins the battle. Deckbuilding rules are as above, with the following exception: nobody may use Shards.

It's a good idea to either record the matches, or take screenshots as proof, in case something weird, like a desync error, happens. Remember, a player who gets caught cheating, will be permanently banned from all Elements community PvP events, so please play fair.


5. AFTER DUELS
Winner should post a new topic in the "Battle Results" section, along with short description of how the match went. Both the winner and the loser are required to post pictures of both their decks.


6. WINNER
If there is a tie for the winner, a sudden best of 5 deathmatch with deckbuilding rules from the event will be immediately played.


7. REWARDS
The winner of the event will receive the following forum award icon:




FAQs
Q. Are substitutions allowed?
A. Each faction has the opportunity to sub one of their players once per round. RL things are bound to happen, but keep it at a minimum please :) Also, Crime Lords will need to use their other faction's sub.

Q. I don't know who the Crime Lord of my team is, can you tell me?
A. Crime Lords are supposed to be secret. They have to, since they are not really a part of their team and their team should want them dead. Reason being, if they win their whole team loses exactly as happens if any other opponent wins.

Q. Why is the Twelve called the Twelve if there are only six players?
A. 'Cause we can't afford to run an event with more than 70 players in it. Because six of the original Twelve survived, while the others were found over the ages by the Sacred Order and purged by the Emperor himself.

Q. So, what exactly am I supposed to ask to the Court?
A. The questions must be ON THE DECK. That excludes metagame questions. Questions you can make are:
- "Is Lightning in your deck?"
- "Is your deck over 35 cards?"
- "Do you have at least 6 aether cards in your deck?"
- "Are you playing either Twin Universe, Titan or Momentum in your deck?"
- "Are you playing shields?"

Questions you CANNOT make:
- "Are you playing Flying Titans?"
- "Are you playing a stall?"
- "Does your deck counter Adrenastaves?"
- "Would you say that your deck is powerful?"
- "Would you say that....?"

These questions are not on the deck, so the Court isn't obligated to tell anything.
Also, if the Court answers a question - even if it is illegal - you can bind them to their word: the question is considered valid for the purposes of that match alone. This is to avoid question shenanigans. Take a screenie of the questions and answers and when you arrive at three answered questions you're good to go.


Q. To respect the elements restriction, can I use (for instance) 3 cards from one element and 3 from the other?
A. No, the 6 cards must be all from one of those elements. Also, keep in mind you can't use 0-cost cards to fulfill this requirement.

Q. What does the special of Barbarians exactly imply? What abilities are they immune to?
A. They may not ask questions to the Court, they may not be influenced by the Crime Lords, they may not be corrupted by the Sacred Order and Rebels may not escape them.

Q. What does the limitation of the Rebels mean?
A. That you can use up to four copies of the same card in a deck, but no more than that. For instance, you can't have 5 copies of Stone Skin in your deck, but you can have 3 copies of Reverse Time.

Q. Can I change deck after asking questions to the Court?
A. Of course. And the Court may not.

Q. Are Shards-
A. No Shards.

Q. How does Escape work?
A. You declare that you escape in the battle results thread, after posting all your decks. You only avoid the negative effects of having lost, you do not avoid giving your opponent a win.

Q. Do the Twelve lose upgrades between matches?
A. All upgrades are counted at the start of the round, so no.

Q. You keep referring to matches, duels etc. What does that mean?
A. For the purposes of these Rules, consider "match" a single PvP Duel battle, and "battle" a whole set of best of 5 matches.

Q. Can I avoid to kill my opponent, if I wish so? Say, if the only remaining Court member is defeated by a Barbarian before the Twelve are gone...
A. Yes, you may be merciful in any situation.
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Offline Nepycros

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342425#msg342425
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 01:00:51 am »
I like. However, I do find this as a bit odd: Robots and Zombies both start with 6, but just like Vampires, they make more of themselves, and deplete other teams. I'm not sure how balanced that is. The only difference is Vampires can come back, but the more they die, the longer they're out.
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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342455#msg342455
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 02:15:45 am »
Dominating Gaze looks like it could be potentially unbalancing.  Banning 3 :death cards from Zombies or 3 :water cards from Pirates is very powerful.  Not to mention they could ban any 3 weapon cards they choose from Robots.

Also, can you give me a timetable of how long you'd expect this event to last from start to end?
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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342472#msg342472
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 02:42:49 am »
Heroes have a pretty small chance of winning IMO. If they have to beat a person from every other team, this team can automatically lose first round.

If they have to beat a person from every team, the chances are unlikely they'll even get to /face/ a member from every team. All pirates could be eliminated first round, and then Heroes can absolutely not win whatsoever if they didn't face any.

I'm also not comfortable with Zombies getting 10 upgraded cards against almost every opponent.

Pirates can win in 3 rounds.
Heroes can win in 5 rounds.
Vampires can win in 5 rounds.
Zombies (If dying a horrible horrible death means convert them to zombies) can win in 3 rounds.
Robots can win in 4 rounds (assuming they fight all 6 vampires in round 1 and win)
Ninjas can win in erm...4+1+2+3+4+5>16, so 5 rounds.





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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342473#msg342473
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2011, 02:44:15 am »
Heroes have a pretty small chance of winning IMO. If they have to beat a person from every other team, this team can automatically lose first round.

If they have to beat a person from every team, the chances are unlikely they'll even get to /face/ a member from every team. All pirates could be eliminated first round, and then Heroes can absolutely not win whatsoever if they didn't face any.

I'm also not comfortable with Zombies getting 10 upgraded cards against almost every opponent.

Pirates can win in 3 rounds.
Heroes can win in 5 rounds.
Vampires can win in 5 rounds.
Zombies (If dying a horrible horrible death means convert them to zombies) can win in 3 rounds.
Robots can win in 4 rounds (assuming they fight all 6 vampires in round 1 and win)
Ninjas can win in erm...4+1+2+3+4+5>16, so 5 rounds.
Actually, Vampires only have 2 people to begin the match.
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Offline Onizuka

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342477#msg342477
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2011, 02:49:44 am »

30 players->17 players(1 sits out)->10 players
2 vampires->4 vampires->8 vampires

3 rounds.
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Offline The_MormegilTopic starter

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342556#msg342556
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2011, 07:09:21 am »
First of all, I put this up in a whim, so I'm open to balancing / suggestions / improvements.

I like. However, I do find this as a bit odd: Robots and Zombies both start with 6, but just like Vampires, they make more of themselves, and deplete other teams. I'm not sure how balanced that is. The only difference is Vampires can come back, but the more they die, the longer they're out.
Robots do not make other Robots and Zombies do not make other Zombies. They start and finish at 6 each, unless they die.
Vampires start as 2, but may grow in numbers with each win.

Dominating Gaze looks like it could be potentially unbalancing.  Banning 3 :death cards from Zombies or 3 :water cards from Pirates is very powerful.  Not to mention they could ban any 3 weapon cards they choose from Robots.

Also, can you give me a timetable of how long you'd expect this event to last from start to end?
Dominating Gaze is powerful indeed. However, Vampires are the only team that may not use ANY upped cards, they have strict deckbuilding requirements (they are the only team that is forced to use a certain element) and start off as 2. The latter is balanced out by the fact that they cannot effectively die and that they can spawn more Vampires, but the lack of upped cards is a great disadvantage.

About the timetable, I tried to make it so that it will end in 4-6 rounds. I don't know if that is true, but:
- Zombies and Robots both kill people to win. They "help" each other and they help Vampires.
- Ninjas kill people, thus helping Zombies and Robots (and Vampires too).
- Pirates are off on their own, but I expect a good team to win 15 battles in 4-6 rounds, especially when the upped cards advantage starts to grow.
- Heroes' win condition must be revisited a bit

In the first round, up to 15 people may die. The event may finish as fast as two rounds, but will probably last a bit longer if the teams are balanced enough.

Heroes have a pretty small chance of winning IMO. If they have to beat a person from every other team, this team can automatically lose first round.
I was thinking to revise Heroes' win condition. Do you people have any suggestions?

Quote
I'm also not comfortable with Zombies getting 10 upgraded cards against almost every opponent.
While this is true, it's also true that Zombies have strict deckbuilding rules (no shields!), can be predicted and countered and are thought out to be the "fast and brutal" team. As always, I'm open to balancing suggestions.


By the way, the overall thinking behind balancing is this:

Zombies are fast and brutal, their decks are limited, but they can use a flat bonus against almost everyone. Outsmart them or die.

Robots are balanced, they have a knack for weapons but they can make many different decks, they are versatile and slowly grow in power as they enslave other people.

Pirates are tricky and have some tricks up their sleeve, and they gain a lot of power through their Gold. As is, I think Pirates are a bit underpowered, and I'm considering upping the Gold taken from every match to 4 (with the amount of required Gold to win also doubled).

Ninjas have loose deckbuilding rules and can therefore adapt to every enemy and situation. Also, the more they win, the more they grow in power, eventually becoming stronger than any other partecipant.

Vampires start as 2, but increase their numbers, can ban 3 cards but may not use upped cards and have a strict restriction in their decks. Also, they cannot die.

Heroes are weaker than other teams and often predictable, and their mercy leads them to leave opponents alive. However, their win condition is slightly easier than other ones (at least I tried to make it so) and if put with shoulders at the wall they can become stronger than any opponent.
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Offline Onizuka

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342689#msg342689
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 05:00:17 pm »
What does a "horrible, horrible death" entail for zombies/other teams?

Also, Pirates are definitely not UP. Giving them near 30 upped cards near the end can pretty much guarantee their victory. Giving them the chance to mess their opponent up by possibly giving them bad RNG/if they had bad RNG is pretty powerful IMO. If anything, 3 gold per victory and 45 gold to win (# upped cards rounded down).

I want to make the Heroes win condition "If they have beaten 1 member from every team remaining", but I'm pretty sure that is too strong. I was also considering a straight forward # of wins (since this is a single elimination event), something like 4-5 wins. The second one is possibly better, but I'm not sure.

Dominating gaze may look powerful, but as long as each element has enough strong cards in the element (Death certainly has this, and I suppose Water can have this as well). Banning cards really only hurts Heroes IMO, due to their 50% rule. And banning 3 weapons doesn't limit Robots at all.

With Heroes current winning set, they are also the only team that couldn't claim a victory at the end of the game if they're the only ones remaining, since the people they defeat will always come back. A set number of wins clears that.


And no shields doesn't really hurt them. 12 monsters might limit their decks a bit, but they are easily the strongest team (in terms of upped cards,win conditions, and deck variety)
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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342699#msg342699
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 05:24:22 pm »
What does a "horrible, horrible death" entail for zombies/other teams?
You're out of the event. Simple as that. :P

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Also, Pirates are definitely not UP. Giving them near 30 upped cards near the end can pretty much guarantee their victory. Giving them the chance to mess their opponent up by possibly giving them bad RNG/if they had bad RNG is pretty powerful IMO. If anything, 3 gold per victory and 45 gold to win (# upped cards rounded down).
The whole point of Pirates is to start weaker than the others and then slowly becoming (almost) undefeatable as they gain more and more Gold. The problem is that, as it is, their first round will be terribly tough: they will have no ups, :water requirements and they don't even get a Parley to avoid one team. Also, I'm going to change Parley so that you cannot use it more than once against a certain team until you used it against every other team.

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I want to make the Heroes win condition "If they have beaten 1 member from every team remaining", but I'm pretty sure that is too strong. I was also considering a straight forward # of wins (since this is a single elimination event), something like 4-5 wins. The second one is possibly better, but I'm not sure.
We'll see as more suggestion come in, I was thinking alongside these lines too.

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And no shields doesn't really hurt them. 12 monsters might limit their decks a bit, but they are easily the strongest team (in terms of upped cards,win conditions, and deck variety)
Well, I originally intended to make it "no Shields nor Spells", but then I thought it was a bit too harsh. What do you say?
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Offline Onizuka

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342715#msg342715
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 05:50:38 pm »
I'd add the no spells condition, cause while that limits them a bit, they still have plenty to work with.

Eh, Parley wasn't a good ability to begin with. Its best early game (avoid Zombies first round), still lower than average mid game (Avoid Zombies and Ninjas), and pretty much useless end game (Ninjas). IMO they should be able to use it first round, since that's when its strongest. I'd make it cannot use consecutively on the same team, since that still hinders its main power, but doesn't absolutely cripple it.
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Offline The_MormegilTopic starter

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342720#msg342720
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2011, 06:15:59 pm »
Suggestions accepted, and some changes were made. Check the new Heroes and tell me what you think!
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

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Re: Battle of the Clichè https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=26937.msg342724#msg342724
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2011, 06:21:07 pm »
I'm not a fan of a possible 2 round win.
I'd limit the ability to start from Round 2-3+.
You're just as selfish as I am. You're just not as good at it yet.

 

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