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genraenera

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T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg175874#msg175874
« on: October 14, 2010, 12:39:01 am »
Well this is something I've noticed for a while, many people on the T50 in any given time frame take up more than one spot.  Obviously this is not a new discovery, but I'm wondering why this occurs, if it impacts the rate of decks in the T50 ai, and if it can be fixed.

What I mean by the "rate of decks" in the T50 ai is does, for example, 10 men, who appears 5 times on this week's Top 50 get a disproportionate representation in the T50 when people play against the T50?  (If this thread is still alive after this week, refer to the all time Top 50, where Megaspazz takes places 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14, at 451543 score, or just browse the week's T50 and look at all the people with 2-5 places.)  Sorry to use specific names, its easiest to describe this with examples.

Long story short, why does this phenomenon occur, does it impact probabilities in the T50, and can it be fixed?

kobisjeruk

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg175886#msg175886
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 12:49:59 am »
send all your complaints about T50 ranking etc to mochimedia*

while you're at it, tell them they need to fix that shiet so that it doesnt cause performance issues with the latest flashplayer


* right after posting i remembered mochimedia still need access to the database and maybe the problem stems from it instead so its either mochimedia or the db lacking integrity which would make it zanz's fault

smuglapse

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg175894#msg175894
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 01:00:52 am »
Long story short, why does this phenomenon occur
Because people log in from different computers

Quote
, does it impact probabilities in the T50,
Most likely.

Quote
and can it be fixed?
Everything can be fixed, but I'm not seeing this as a priority to the people who can fix it.

Offline pepokish

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176014#msg176014
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 06:25:47 am »
We were discussing this just last night in chat. 

Basically, by submitting your score from multiple places, you can end up in the top50 multiple times.  This isn't looked too kindly upon by the community (when done excessively and purposefully, of course).  I do believe it affects the in-game t50 ai, but don't quote me on that.

Because the list is hosted by Mochi, I don't think there's really much that can be done (as smug said, there are more important things for them to worry about... such as proper flash compatibility -ahem-...)  A more viable solution would be to code a new highscore table independant of Mochi.  However, that would take time and effort on Zanz's part, and I'm sure he also has more important things to worry about at the moment.

Right now, we can really only ask that people in the t50 please try not to submit scores from many different multiple places, for the sake of common courtesy.

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176208#msg176208
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 02:46:22 pm »
We were discussing this just last night in chat. 

Basically, by submitting your score from multiple places, you can end up in the top50 multiple times.  This isn't looked too kindly upon by the community (when done excessively and purposefully, of course).  I do believe it affects the in-game t50 ai, but don't quote me on that.

Because the list is hosted by Mochi, I don't think there's really much that can be done (as smug said, there are more important things for them to worry about... such as proper flash compatibility -ahem-...)  A more viable solution would be to code a new highscore table independant of Mochi.  However, that would take time and effort on Zanz's part, and I'm sure he also has more important things to worry about at the moment.

Right now, we can really only ask that people in the t50 please try not to submit scores from many different multiple places, for the sake of common courtesy.
^This.  And in case anyone needs reasons as to why this should not be done, I'll compose a list for you.

1)  The rare card farms list.  I personally must applaud whoever takes the time to modify that spreadsheet because I wouldn't have the patience to keep changing everyone's current deck, especially when the same person logs their position in multiple times.  Notice that the same person's ign appears only once on that list, which means that this once useful tool is practically obsolete and the process for updating each deck on that list has now been made several times more difficult.

2)  Farms.  I understand that there are some people in t50 who could care less about putting up farms for other players, but for those of you who do, this causes a potential problem when trying to find a farm which meets the needs of the community. It's true, you can have several different farms up when resubmitting your position, but does this necessarily mean that every single rare will be accounted for by doing this?  There are several t50 who have been knocked out of the list who used to take farm requests regularly; this latest scheme has the ability to be responsible for breaking down this system.

3)  Other t50 members.  For several players, t50 is seen as a major achievement and a way to finally give back to community.  Can you imagine how infuriating it must be to have your rightful place revoked simply because someone felt the need to make him/herself the best in 3, 4, 5, or even 6 places?  This isn't just humiliating or disrespectful, it's essentially dehumanizing and needs to stop.

Though this may not be a prevalent issue, I thought I would mention that because this is basically a loophole in the game's highscores, this is also an exploit in the game itself.  And as history has shown us, abusing these loopholes are never a good thing; I am personally requesting that from here forward no one speaks of how to exploit this loophole.  It's caused enough trouble from mentioning it once, but to repeatedly speak of it increases the chances of the top50 becoming the top10 or even just top1.

Now, I don't know why this has been done and I won't ask, but I find it difficult to be believe that this scheme has been done for the good of anyone except the user him/herself.  Reconsider doing such a thing in the future in order to preserve the dignity and respect from the rest of the community if you would please.
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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176323#msg176323
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 05:44:13 pm »
what he posted above

Note that, at least if the t50 person is rational, submitting multiple times is unintentional. It's shown that connecting to the ranking server multiple times or on different IPs do this. However, what if the person simply wanted to check his/her position or others' scores? Or what if the person accessed the ranking in the morning via a personal computer, then later on another computer at work?

Don't necessarily blame those people. I would especially agree with 3), since my score right now is about 190k, enough to be in t50 until Friday or so. However, I blame mochi because I personally think there's a problem with the fact that accessing the highscore automatically submits the score, which is awfully stupid.
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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176324#msg176324
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 05:51:01 pm »
what he posted above

Note that, at least if the t50 person is rational, submitting multiple times is unintentional. It's shown that connecting to the ranking server multiple times or on different IPs do this. However, what if the person simply wanted to check his/her position or others' scores? Or what if the person accessed the ranking in the morning via a personal computer, then later on another computer at work?

Don't necessarily blame those people. I would especially agree with 3), since my score right now is about 190k, enough to be in t50 until Friday or so. However, I blame mochi because I personally think there's a problem with the fact that accessing the highscore automatically submits the score, which is awfully stupid.
I thank you for pointing this out as I had left this out of my post earlier.  I do not perceive those who have 2, possibly even 3 spots as being at fault here as I do understand that several people play at home and then also at work, which is completely comprehensible.  After this, however, things can become suspicious.
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zse

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176905#msg176905
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 12:18:52 pm »
I started topic (now locked) of this same thing
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14010.0.html
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You can view highscores list without submitting. List doesn't show up (for me) at
http://elementsthegame.com/ or http://elementsthegame.net/ but it becomes visible at
http://elementsthegame.com/spectate site (by clicking the black area below the "Comments" box). Some bugs must be causing these problems, since they used to be visible at game sites earlier.

kobisjeruk

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176952#msg176952
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 02:33:41 pm »
Quote
You can view highscores list without submitting. List doesn't show up (for me) at
http://elementsthegame.com/ or http://elementsthegame.net/ but it becomes visible at
http://elementsthegame.com/spectate site (by clicking the black area below the "Comments" box). Some bugs must be causing these problems, since they used to be visible at game sites earlier.
check out my findings here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11857.msg157044#msg157044) and zanz reply on the next page
basically zanz removed the widget (which displayed scoreboard on the front page) to resolve the issue

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176959#msg176959
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 02:44:47 pm »
I don't even have to use different computer, just clearing the history and old data or using different browser and my name is appearing in top 50 for the second time if I submit/check it.
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Malduk

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176966#msg176966
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 02:49:13 pm »
I don't even have to use different computer, just clearing the history and old data or using different browser and my name is appearing in top 50 for the second time if I submit/check it.
That would mean that submissions are based on sessions, which is the single most stupid way to try to prevent multiple submissions from the same player. I thought its at least IP based.

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Re: T50, more like T30? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13912.msg176968#msg176968
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 02:52:01 pm »
I agree...

As I said in another recent topic on the same subject, I think the best way would be to base submissions off of the actual account name.  That way, old highscores from the same account would simply be replaced upon resubmitting, and would prevent multiple occurrences of the same account. 

I don't know if this is necessarily an easy solution, but it certainly seems like the most obvious one.

 

anything
blarg: