Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa

[serprex]

Also sub, Link's "no need" remark re citing rob, his point is that this isn't something that needs citation. It'd be like me asking you to cite a game showing ian understands English. It's assumed

[DoubleCapitals]

I was going to say Cal, but then he posted that beautiful readslist, so look into DC for me.

The only somewhat relevant post I could find is his scumread list

...

The only thing that this tells me is that if timpa or Ge0 turn out to be mafia, he's pretty much confirmed.

@ian, would you say this about anyone else with the same reads with regards to these 2 as I do?

And here, DC, this is for you after that iancu post.

Spoiler for Hidden:

That I should hold back on my vote/keep quiet? OR stop badgering ian re: his own lack of voting?

Why do you say that based on a Day 1 readslist? It's really easy to throw teammates in w this early.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that fits DC's playstyle at all. He doesn't have the confidence to do such a play.

To play devil's advocate, if I'm mafia and trying to bus my teammates, I'll have said teammates to help me pull such a move off. I'll concede that a solo DC might not be able to pull off that bus with confidence though. Probably.

Spoiler for clarifications on sub's post:

What does PoE and ISO stand for? I don't visit MU enough to know. These terminologies should be explained.
FoS?

Process of Elimination, Isolation (scrutinizing 1 person's posts), Finger of Suspicion

Yeah, because that's exactly what scum do is that last statement: kill someone knowing it will be revealed they did it just to pull the spotlight into myself.

I missed this post before I made my first confusion post. This confirms that rob could have devoured Coffee with either alignment. But ultimately it sucks for me, because I was the one not paying enough attention.

TorB brought up valid points about rob, but then rob responded like so:

Sooo, you're saying that you think I might be a wolf because I made a play with a negative town outcome to draw spotlight on myself expecting people here to think I'm too smart too be that dumb as a wolf and thereby townread a wolf--rob for it?

Lol there's no way that is a real thought? From my position, that feels quite fabricated... Keeping my vote where it is. Let's say you could vote - would you be voting me right now

The part in yellow translates to me as: "There's no way I could think of such elaborate strategy!", which is either self-praise or dismissing his own ability to create such theater. None of which seem honest.

Linking back to kaempfer's question to Linkcat about giving past examples of rob being Mafia, I just remembered the time where rob was Mafia, and he goaded Town into lynching me. It was Linkcat's closed mafia setup, roleplay involved. I did not follow the game after my death, out of salt, but it can be of use for others.

I saw a few others who made valid points against rob (TorB, serp, Link, Annele), and now that my townread on him loosened a bit, I can agree with them.

I need to re-evaluate my reads on rob after this.

@Rob: During Night 0, did you see benefit in your plan even if Coffee was Town? Because as the conversations drag on, you seem to forget bringing that up in your defense.

edit: Note to self: In rob's defense, if he was truthful about it, he was in need of sleep and he was typing all that from phone.

I think this above line of play proposed in that argument is still rather ludicrous and risky for scum to pull off. I think he's genuinely perplexed that this argument is being proposed as opposed to trying to be melodramatic...

Just because someone attracts a bunch of attention, that does not equal lynch target. Activity leads to more activity. Punishment of activity is bad. Because of this, even if rob or Link say something outrageous, keep them alive please. They are most likely town if they are active, anyway.

What? I agree that we should not punish activity, but in the same time, why should we look the other way when it comes to rob or Link? Are we really that useless without them that we are ok with losing on the spot if they are mafia? From this, all I get is that if you are mafia, they have a higher chance of being too, and same the other way around.

But I also wanted to imply that I only want to keep these people alive "longer", but not indefinitely. Hopefully, by the endgame, all town with lower activity is cleared out by either making them contribute more or by executing them.

Again, activity good, inactivity bad, but this type of behaviour is frustrating to play with casually. Even when I feel like I'm contributing and being fairly active, it seems like it's not enough for everyone and I'm berated for it. Let's just not execute people on the spot because they don't have a bazillion posts, ok?

I wanted to respond to this too.

"why should we look the other way when it comes to rob or Link?"

Do not look the other way, just appreciate the discussion they spark. I could have said kaempfer or shock too, but in this game, Link and rob have been the most vocal. And according to moe, DoubleCapitals too, but I overlooked him somehow.

Because, admittedly, all I've been doing is joking and shitposting. My N0 doesn't have much of substance. I did not certainly expect people to seriously read into my role for one.

[DoubleCapitals]

Sub's really grasping at like, a lot of things. Some of which I find largely insignificant and I feel he's swamping the conversation with

Has he been like this all the time folks?

[serprex]

Sub's really grasping at like, a lot of things. Some of which I find largely insignificant and I feel he's swamping the conversation with

Has he been like this all the time folks?

Yes, even outside of mafia threads

[andretimpa]

Haven't had a lot of time for this, which is the main reason I kept my posts more short and haven't been able to do anything with a significant depth so far.
These are my reads so far

serp (vv)
moe (vv)

They are both confirmed, not much to discuss here. If serp's translation was incorrect he'd get MK'd after all and only town could start with deja vu.

rob (n)

I poked him to claim if he was a Fate Egg or not, because that'd have been the only way his N0 action made sense to me. As it stands it seems a more neutral instead of scummy move to me.

torb (n+)

Taking a step back, his decisions make much more sense, regarding his discussion with rob.

Cal (n)
kdz (n)

Look like your regular players without much time to dedicate to mafia. Nothing to really build a read on stuck out to me.

shock (n)

Just doing his own thing for now. I hope he gets more serious later on.

DC (n)

Finally dropped the shitposting to vote. Nothing else to go by.

ian (n)

Was a n- until he gave us a reason for holding votes, despite posting a lot.

Annele (?)

After reading more on Link's posts I'm not sure how to feel about her.

Ge0

MW (n-)

I still share kaemp's impression that the only way he could know definitely if shock was town was Fate Egg/GN. Together with his Oty confusion later on it might just mean that he's getting confused about the rules (or I'm missing something here  )

Link (n+)

His effort is really striking me as town here, then again he's hard to read.

kaemp (n+)

Strikes me as town, would really love to see his read list

Sub (?)

Still wrapping my head around this mega post. Will update this once I'm done with it



Obliging to Link, I'll vote on my worst read so far

rob77dp (1) - Ge0metry v1.2
Submachine (3) - Calindu, serprex, rob77dp
andretimpa (4) - Linkcat, Annele, MasterWalks, DoubleCapitals
MasterWalks(1) - andretimpa

[andretimpa]

Also

Extension (7) - kaempfer13, DoubleCapitals, Annele, iancudorinmarian, Submachine, Calindu, andretimpa

[andretimpa]

EBWOP:

forgot about Ge0

=============


Haven't had a lot of time for this, which is the main reason I kept my posts more short and haven't been able to do anything with a significant depth so far.
These are my reads so far

serp (vv)
moe (vv)

They are both confirmed, not much to discuss here. If serp's translation was incorrect he'd get MK'd after all and only town could start with deja vu.

rob (n)

I poked him to claim if he was a Fate Egg or not, because that'd have been the only way his N0 action made sense to me. As it stands it seems a more neutral instead of scummy move to me.

torb (n+)

Taking a step back, his decisions make much more sense, regarding his discussion with rob.

Cal (n)
kdz (n)

Look like your regular players without much time to dedicate to mafia. Nothing to really build a read on stuck out to me.

shock (n)

Just doing his own thing for now. I hope he gets more serious later on.

DC (n)

Finally dropped the shitposting to vote. Nothing else to go by.

ian (n)

Was a n- until he gave us a reason for holding votes, despite posting a lot.

Annele (?)

After reading more on Link's posts I'm not sure how to feel about her.

Ge0 (n)

Nothing really special so far, he seems to be low on time to dedicate to this too

MW (n-)

I still share kaemp's impression that the only way he could know definitely if shock was town was Fate Egg/GN. Together with his Oty confusion later on it might just mean that he's getting confused about the rules (or I'm missing something here  )

Link (n+)

His effort is really striking me as town here, then again he's hard to read.

kaemp (n+)

Strikes me as town, would really love to see his read list

Sub (?)

Still wrapping my head around this mega post. Will update this once I'm done with it



Obliging to Link, I'll vote on my worst read so far

rob77dp (1) - Ge0metry v1.2
Submachine (3) - Calindu, serprex, rob77dp
andretimpa (4) - Linkcat, Annele, MasterWalks, DoubleCapitals
MasterWalks(1) - andretimpa

[serprex]

ffs use diff if you aren't just going to post a blurb of what you missed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff

[Submachine]

I have been going at Part 1 for almost six hours. I need a break.

If we do not get an extension and I get a pile of votes while I am away, I will live with it.

[shockcannon]

Spoiler for Please only read if you are kaempf.:

I know you don’t have time or energy to play my games and I’m sure my spoilers aimed at you feel like games. But this go-around I’m very serious. My low post count should testify to that even if others fail to realize.

I wish people would listen to my spoilers as well as you do but unfortunately mafia are always so curious as well as other problem players like serprex and masterwalks. As such I’ve been struggling for the past day to find a way to work with you without the interference of every other player in this game. I have found a way. It will generate some responses though and I’m worried how this post will be taken. I hope they’ll be disregarded along with my previous posts. That’s optimal for us. Worst case scenario we get confusion from Sub, trolling from others, or targeting by mafia but I’m not concerned.

I will start by saying I’m not a fan of the extensions. I actually think town using night roles is where we make the most progress even without a GN. I think we have more than enough posts already for night roles to help us find mistakes made by mafias in all the posts we have received so far. However I do see your angle and I’m reconsidering my stance on extensions.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, I leave you with this message that many players will try to decipher and many will feel confident they know the implications of my message. Do not listen to what they say. I encourage you to read into this message almost at face value with slight implications outside of being a generic statement. This is not a game either, I’m being serious and trying to offer advice. And you don’t have to take it. It’s simply advice.

**
PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE
We will win this game. The mafia have given themselves away more than they realize. There’s no need to rush. Our options only increase with
**

P.S. My only town reads so far are you and anyone who chooses not to read this spoiler text. I suspect 2-3 specific players to skip reading this spoiler and trust me, I will be able to tell if they did indeed read this or not.

Also @everyone not named kaempf reading this. I spent 24 hours crafting this message. If you think I managed to give away any information to anyone who isn’t kaempf, then you have played right into my hands and I will enjoy what will follow from this. 

[DoubleCapitals]

I have been going at Part 1 for almost six hours. I need a break.

If we do not get an extension and I get a pile of votes while I am away, I will live with it.

For your own sake and frankly ours too don't spend so much time on it xD. Summarise, tell us the most alarming things... 6 hours is kinda unhealthy for a children's card forum game

[rob77dp]

I have been going at Part 1 for almost six hours. I need a break.

If we do not get an extension and I get a pile of votes while I am away, I will live with it.

You're not the leading wagon, just one of the competing wagons... come down a notch and do some solving stuff or planning or w/e Sub does. That is, play to your win-con which as town is to your dying breath keep clawing at what you don't know and parsing what you think you know and do know to push information into the thread. Only a scum truly should arrive at a point where stopping in the thread is logically the best move for a win-con (i.e. - scum have a REASON to quit trying toward rough day phases as they know information they shouldn't as town; whereas, town don't really know all that much usually so they should see no GAME reasons to concede). Caveat emptor: humans are human, so town and scum can overlap in end-of-day emotional reactions, I realize this.

TL;DR - town!Sub should find plenty of reason to keep clawing as it helps town; scum!Sub just might have a legit breaking point to stop posting / spewing.

That's my exhortation here.