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Offline Dragoon1140

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Re: MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg109108#msg109108
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2010, 05:18:26 pm »
Not to /derail, but isn't the Sapphire Charger an animal?  I'm thinking it is like a rhinoceros, so when it runs it gains momentum.   :-\
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Offline ddevans96

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Re: MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg109145#msg109145
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2010, 05:54:19 pm »
Not to /derail, but isn't the Sapphire Charger an animal?  I'm thinking it is like a rhinoceros, so when it runs it gains momentum.   :-\
I think it's a robotic quadruped, maybe a rhinoceros.
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rotface

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Re: MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg109175#msg109175
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2010, 06:28:56 pm »
if only i could be in this WOE this looks awesome

Offline Dragoon1140

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Re: MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg109184#msg109184
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2010, 06:37:50 pm »
Well I'll gladly participate, if possible, in the beta as an "Other" player.  I'll test the waters and see how well Other does with its starting deck.
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Re: WoE beta testing - MAP INCLUDED https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg109369#msg109369
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2010, 10:42:26 pm »
I agree with dragoon, there should be some kind of fog of war involved, meaning you only know what your team has explored yet. Otherwise it will be to easy to find shortcuts and the shortest way around obstacles.
Actually, I wasn't referring to Fog of War, just layers that we could turn on and off to better see the information we're looking for.  Fog of War would be pretty cool though, but I think it'd be way too much work to implement.  But hey, if there's an epic coder that can do map layers, maybe he can do Fog of War too.

EDIT:  Unless you meant the original Dragoon, not the 1140th.
What!?!  Someone else with my unoriginal name?  Where?  I'll pull out my dragoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon) and fill their chest with holes.

On a serious note, to avoid confusion, I suppose people can refer to me as Drag since I have the shorter name.  That's what people called me in the old Elements chat room anyways.  :P
just curious, what program is being used for this? Is it just being stored in text on the forum, or are you guys writing a program to represent the current state of the game? I need some coding practice if this is being done in a language I know.

Offline Dragoon

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Re: WoE beta testing - MAP INCLUDED https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg109371#msg109371
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2010, 10:47:03 pm »
just curious, what program is being used for this? Is it just being stored in text on the forum, or are you guys writing a program to represent the current state of the game? I need some coding practice if this is being done in a language I know.
Not sure.  You probably need to ask Scaredgirl.

harry959

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Re: WORLD MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg111191#msg111191
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2010, 07:46:48 pm »
Is the rebel outpost where the duo, trio, and rainbow decks start off?

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Re: WORLD MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg111195#msg111195
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2010, 07:50:47 pm »
Is the rebel outpost where the duo, trio, and rainbow decks start off?
It's where the 'other' players start, meaning players who didn't pick any of then 12 elements.

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Re: WORLD MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg111222#msg111222
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2010, 08:29:06 pm »
Why does death have 4 towns and darkness 0?
And why is darkness' wonder two hexagons away from the capital, while being 1 square from death city?
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Re: WORLD MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg129603#msg129603
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2010, 06:44:29 am »
Okay, after lots of work, I calculated which elements should be neighbors.  ...welllllll I came close.

I started with a simple premise.  If two elements are nearby each other, they learn from each other and gain synergy from each other.  So I asked each master to make a thread asking for the top six synergies (as it is a hex based map).  Many only provided four votes, so in the case of darkness, the last two synergies were inconclusive.  Some didn't bother with the thread at all, and so I had to get that data from chat.  There were many ties.  But finally I had the raw data for each element:

Aether:  Darkness, Light, Earth, Life, Death, Fire
Air: Life, Fire, Light, Water/Death, Aether
Darkness: Death, Aether, Earth, Entropy, Life, Light/Gravity
Death:  Darkness, Water, Aether, Air, Fire, Life
Earth: Fire, Time, Gravity, Darkness, Aether, Light/Entropy
Entropy: Darkness, Gravity, Life, Aether, Death, Time/Light/Earth.
Fire: Earth, Aether, Air, Death, Gravity, Light
Gravity: Earth, Light, Fire, Air, Entropy, Time
Life: Aether, Air, Light, Water, Darkness/Entropy
Light: Aether, Life, Air, Fire, Earth/Darkness/Water
Time: Aether, Earth, Gravity, Life, Light, Darkness
Water: Death, Aether, Air, Life, Fire, Earth

Next, I had to narrow it down so the elements matched with each other, instead of causing paradoxes, so I grouped the elements not by what they picked, but by who picked them.  The data was as follows:


Aether: Air, Darkness, Death, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Life, Light, Time, Water
Air: Death, Fire, Gravity, Life, Light, Water
Darkness: Aether, Death, Earth, Entropy, Life, Light, Time
Death: Aether, Air, Darkness, Entropy, Fire, Water
Earth: Aether, Darkness, Entropy, Fire, Gravity, Light, Time, Water
Entropy: Darkness, Earth, Gravity, Life
Fire: Aether, Air, Death, Earth, Gravity, Light, Water
Gravity: Darkness, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Time
Life: Aether, Air, Darkness, Death, Entropy, Light, Time, Water
Light: Aether, Air, Darkness, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Gravity, Life, Time
Time: Earth, Entropy, Gravity
Water: Air, Death, Life, Light

Seeing as some elements were far more popular than the rest, I decided I would discover their six neighbors first, and save the unpopular ones for later.  For elements like aether, if you didn't take aether in your top three, you didn't get it.  After that, I had this table:


Aether: Life, Light, Earth, Water, Death, Darkness
Light: Aether, Air, Gravity, Life, Time, Fire                   +2
Earth: Fire, Gravity, Time, Aether, Darkness, Water     =0
Life: Air, Light, Entropy, Water, Time, Aether
Fire: Earth, Air, Gravity, Light, Water, Death
Darkness: Aether, Death, Entropy, Earth, Time, Light  =0
Air: Life, Light, Water, Fire, Gravity, Death                   -1
Death: Darkness, Water, Fire, Air, Aether, Entropy
Gravity: Darkness, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Time, Light    =0
Entropy: Darkness, Earth, Gravity, Life, Death, Time    -1
Water: Light, Life, Death, Air, Fire, Aether                   =0
Time: Earth, Entropy, Gravity, Light, Life, Darkness

In Word, I coordinated the discrepancies, so if fire took aether but aether didn't take fire, then the element fire, the element aether, and the choice of aether under the element of fire would all be italicized/colored the same.  I will not be copying that data here.  But once I had that intel, I used control find to see which elements I had too many of, and which I didn't have enough of.  Those are the numbers.  Finally, I set about correcting the table, so if one element picked another, the latter element also picked the former.  Here was the end result:


Aether: Life, Light, Earth, Water, Death, Darkness,
Light: Aether, Air, Gravity, Life, Time, Fire                     
Earth: Fire, Gravity, Time, Aether, Darkness, Water     
Life: Air, Light, Entropy, Water, Time, Aether
Fire: Earth, Air, Gravity, Light, Water, Death,
Darkness: Aether, Death, Entropy, Earth, Time, Gravity
Air: Life, Light, Water, Fire, Entropy, Death                 
Death: Darkness, Water, Fire, Air, Aether, Entropy,
Gravity: Darkness, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Time, Light   
Entropy: Darkness, Air, Gravity, Life, Death, Time   
Water: Earth, Life, Death, Air, Fire, Aether                   
Time: Earth, Entropy, Gravity, Light, Life, Darkness

As you can see, all elements have at least some synergy between each other, the only non-synergous match being entropy/air.  Some matches rely on new cards, like darkness/gravity and gravity/time, which rely on voodoo doll and dune scorpion respectively.  Some matches, like fire/light, don't make sense until you realize cremation targets are few and far between, and aether was the most sought after element.  For that reason, aether/fire was not chosen, despite all the synergy.
It had been suggested that air is on a floating land, aether is in another dimension, and darkness/earth/death are under ground.  This would allow for one element to have no non-middlerealm allies, and be in the center of a large hex, and those side hexes have the synergies needed for it to work.  Sadly, every element has at least one non-middlerealm syngery.  So instead of having an element be the center, other shall be.
This provides a problem, for it means there are 13 elements in a design meant for 12.  One element cannot be equadistant to other unless it is removed from the middlerealm.  As such, light, life, fire, gravity, entropy, water, or time must be removed from the middlerealm.  I propose removing light, and like aether, giving it it's own dimension.  Perhaps a "heaven" of some sort fitting in with the angel concept, or perhaps something else.  Maybe gravity is on an orbiting moon.  Either way, additional tranport hexes would have to be added.  (If you didn't know, the only way between the middle realm and the air city are updrafts/launch points, the only way to the underworld is through caves, and you need a dimensional portal/gate/wormhole to reach the aetherian dimension.

Still, I think this data can help arrange where all the elements are.  The underworld is elongated length wise, with darkness in the middle between death and earth.  The water/earth and water/death caves could perhaps be subterranean waterfalls.  I'd make an official map if I had ANY map making skills, but instead I'll describe the map.

Aetherian Dimension:  Large aether controlled hexagon.  Portal along each wall/in each corner.  Portals go to the edge elements' territories in the completed table.  (Life, Light, Earth, Water, Death, Darkness)

Overworld:  A ragtag group of clouds above the whole map.  For ease of use, it'd probably wind up looking hexagonal as well.  It's six launch points go to the edge of the elements' territories in the completed table. (Life, Light, Water, Fire, Entropy, Death).  As for death, the dock/updraft could be in a sink hole of some sort, or it could just land by a secluded cave.  The former would be more fair, while the latter would make more sense.

Underworld:  As I stated earlier, an elongated strip with darkness in the middle between earth and death.  Caves would go to the edges of the respective elements from those same elements.

Land of Light:  No idea how you get here, but it's pretty much the exact same thing as the aetherian dimension.

Middle Realm:  The most confusing of the three.  I figured out it's shape by finding the number of middle-realm borders.

Life: Entropy, Water, Time  3
Fire: Gravity, Water   2
Gravity: Entropy, Fire, Time     3
Entropy:Gravity, Life, Time       3 
Water: Life, Fire        2                 
Time: Entropy, Gravity, Life   3

Unfortunately (and I have no idea how this happened, this project has way too many constraints at this point), they do not make a ring, as some of them have three borders.  This would me that the other city couldn't be equidistant.  In fact, I have no idea how they'd look, and would need a pencil and paper to find out.  So I found out what it would look like without the weird light realm, and tried to see which element could be removed to make a doughnut.

Light: Gravity, Life, Time, Fire                           
Life: Light, Entropy, Water, Time,
Fire:  Gravity, Light, Water,
Gravity: Entropy, Fire, Time, Light   
Entropy: Gravity, Life, Time   
Water: Life, Fire                   
Time: Entropy, Gravity, Light, Life

Eventually I realized it was a fruitless effort.  As elements like light, life, fire, and gravity had FOUR middle realm connections, a ring could never be made.  In fact, the only way to make the map physically possible is to give life it's own dimension/gate/place not in the middle realm.  If you do that, the map looks like this:

Water|Fire|Gravity|Entropy
              |Light|Time


Of course, this map gets completely F-ed up when you add in other, an area with 6 borders that needs twelve neighbors.  Even if you don't do that, the map isn't the worlds fairest thing.  My original six neighbor system would need to be changed.  So that's what I leave you with:

Aether: Life, Light, Earth, Water, Death, Darkness,
Light: Aether, Air, Gravity, Life, Time, Fire                     
Earth: Fire, Gravity, Time, Aether, Darkness, Water     
Life: Air, Light, Entropy, Water, Time, Aether
Fire: Earth, Air, Gravity, Light, Water, Death,
Darkness: Aether, Death, Entropy, Earth, Time, Gravity
Air: Life, Light, Water, Fire, Entropy, Death                 
Death: Darkness, Water, Fire, Air, Aether, Entropy,
Gravity: Darkness, Earth, Entropy, Fire, Time, Light   
Entropy: Darkness, Air, Gravity, Life, Death, Time   
Water: Earth, Life, Death, Air, Fire, Aether                   
Time: Earth, Entropy, Gravity, Light, Life, Darkness

The middle realms have too many borders, and some syngergies need to be better.  If we use a synergy based border system, then the picks I have above need to be changed.  I'm too tired to do it better, and I have no idea if even my raw data is correct because four polls are missing.  Still, it's the best I could do, and I hope it helps.

Or at least, I hope this isn't pointless because the map is already finished.


The hole in the middle of entropy is the sink-hole, a straight down drop into the land of darkness, that air capitalizes on to move freely between air and death.

harry959

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Re: WORLD MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg132100#msg132100
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2010, 12:59:37 am »
That may be the longest and most complicated post I have ever seen.

RedWarrior0

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Re: WORLD MAP https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9052.msg132129#msg132129
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2010, 01:56:29 am »
Quote
longpost
Or do something like SG's map in the main post.

 

blarg: