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Offline Wizardcat

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg221167#msg221167
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2010, 06:52:30 pm »
How will the effects that target your opponent's deck effect work against NPC opponents?
The...same way? at least when it comes to cards in their deck, or so I'd suspect.
I'm assuming that each NPC has their own set deck, so skills such as Diversion pose a problem if they do. Unlike us, they don't have a Vault of cards to switch up their decks with in accordance with such a skill.
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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg221337#msg221337
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2010, 10:26:32 pm »
Ok I've been thinking about these for a really long time now, so get ready for a wall of text. :P

*snip*

I haven't compared skill trees much, so there might be some serious balance issues. I personally thing that :earth is currently the king of lame skills, and really needs something cool. Other elements have all kinds of cool PvP skills while :earth players are digging holes.
I have some ideas about this, just keep reading :)

Quote
Actually it makes sense now that I think about it. They are digging their own graves. :)
D: that is most definately not cool....

Ok time for that wall of text, get ready for a lot of ideas: (I actually had so many i had to organize them into what it is now...lol)


Table of Contents:
    :aether Aether (#post_aether)
    :air Air (#post_air)
    :darkness Darkness (#post_darkness)
    :death Death (#post_death)
    :earth Earth (#post_earth)
    :entropy Entropy (#post_entropy)
    :fire Fire (#post_fire)
    :gravity Gravity (#post_gravity)
    :life Life (#post_life)
    :light Light (#post_light)
    :time Time (#post_time)
    :water Water (#post_water)
    :underworld Other (#post_other)


Aether:
  • Spatial Rift:
    • Use 1 relic. Rift* to the nearest hex containing a special transport method.
  • Stabilize:
    • Use 1 relic. For this turn only, you are less likely to be attacked by NPC's from the element closest to the hex you are on.
  • Phase
    • Use 1 action point. Large-scale.
*Rifting is a highly risky form of warping, you have an extremely high chance to lose money and items that are not stored safely in the bank. This form of warp is usually saved for a last-ditch escape method.


Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Air:
  • Whistling Wind:
    • Use 1 relic. Call upon a Whistling wind. Whistling wind distracts all non-air players on the same hex, allowing you to slip by them with ease.
  • Pressure:
    • Use 1 relic. Affects all non-air players. If a player loses a match 2-0, they must discard 0.5X cards more, where X is the amount of cards normally discarded*.
*This might change to number of cards in the player's deck, but it's not likely I will :P


Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Darkness:
  • Lurk:
    • Only works in non-neutral territories (this will ignore the 'auto-get' part of neutral hexes*). You will gather information throughout this turn. Next turn you will receive a quest based on the information gathered the previous turn.
*the 'auto-get' mentioned refers to the function of neutral hexes that SG explained here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17090.0.html).


Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Death:
Champion Ability:
  • Zombies:
    • Uses 1 action point. Any players of the same element (team) as you, who are spirits, are resurrected on the spot with 0 action points but retain all items, electrum, and other status from the last recorded save point before they were killed.

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Earth:
  • Rock Toss
    • No cost. Throw at a player/NPC to anger him into attacking you.
  • Reinforce
    • Use 1 action point. Large-scale. Can only be used when under siege. The city wall gains +50 HP.

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Entropy:
  • Disassemble
    • Costs 100 :electrum per use. Any [once] crafted card is broken into all the components (cards) used to make it, with the exception of relics and :electrum .
  • Panic
    • Use 1 action point. Large-scale. Induce mass panic in the nearest city. This will lower defenses on that city wall for that turn only.

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Fire:
  • Wildfire
    • Use 1 relic and 1 action point. Can only be used on a forest-terrain hex. Burn the forest on this hex, the terrain is now Charred Wasteland*.
  • Heat wave
    • Use 1 action point. Large-scale.
*charred wasteland terrain is temporary and is only found on hexes after the use of Wildfire. Any hex with this terrain returns to its normal state the next round.


Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Gravity:
  • ability name
    • ability

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Life:
  • ability name
    • ability

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Light:
  • ability name
    • ability

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Time:
  • Redo
    • Use 1 relic. Gain 1 more action point to use this round.

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Water:
  • Drown (siege-oriented tactic)
    • Use 1 action point. Large-scale*. Can only be used if there is a body of water in an adjacent hex. Subdue
*Large-scale indicates that in order to be used, there must be at least 4 members of your team in the same hex as you to initiate and carry out this skill. These members must also be in possession of the same skill in order to carry out the large-scale move.


Back To Top (#post_ToC)
Other:
  • ability name
    • ability

Back To Top (#post_ToC)
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(more to come, just saving progress) :P
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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg221788#msg221788
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2010, 10:34:08 am »
I'm liking the new champion abilities. At first I thought they were all going to have the same 'passive' bonus applied to them, but I suppose these new skills are pretty amazing as is. :) That said...

I find it remarkable that I like almost every single one of your ideas. Believe me when I tell you that it's something that doesn't happen every day.

If I ever want to experience how it feels like to live below the poverty line by quitting my day job and becoming a full-time game designer, I might have to hire you. :)
Is it possible by chance that I could use this as a note to add to my resume? ^^;;;

...but I'm truly honored SG. :D Anyway, I'm really glad that we're almost finished with some of the trees, but I figure the faster the community fills those boxes up, the better WoE will flow (considering that these skills will be fairly vital to any player's character in the game) with feedback. More ideas guys! >.>


Other suggestions-

(Slight changes)

:fire - Fireguard: Destroy a level 3 improvement in your current hex. For the next 2 turns, the elemental who built that improvement receives 10% less electrum from their hexes.
(Destroying things should be more fun for Fire. :P)

:water - Tide Hunter: Transform a plains hex to an impassable water hex. Can receive 2 additional water creatures upon moving into impassable water hexes.
(Aside from being a form of environment control, wouldn't it make sense for a Tide "Hunter" to also hunt creatures in the ocean he just created, adding on a little bit of PvP and manueverability?)

:air - Storm Bringer: "Consume a Relic to start a massive storm in a specific hex. Players in the hex are forced to discard X cards."
(Readjusted from the 'damage' thing. ^^; )

:earth - Expert Miner: "Build a tunnel on any mountain or hill hex. Takes 3 turns to complete. Consume a Relic to speed up the process (reduce amount of turns to build by 1)."
(See the new Earth ability for details)

Champion skills (for naming similar to Darkness' 'Corrupt')

:death - Name the skill, 'Wither'
:light - Name the skill, 'Illumination'
:entropy - Name the skill, 'Derange'


(New suggestions)

:life - Hunter: "2 AP: Name an enemy player out loud. If you win a duel against them within the next 5 turns, salvage an additional 6 cards from them. This effect lasts 5 turns."

:life - Nature Rituals I & II: "Gain a counter each time you convert three (two) hexes into a Life hex (move into them). Consume a relic to permanently gain non-rare creatures equivalent to the amount of counters."

OR - "Harvest no longer requires an action point." + "If you use Harvest in a hex occupied by a non-ally or non-Life player, the opposing player cannot obtain resources the next turn."

:earth - New ability, Archaeologist/Excavator: "Gain a counter each time you use Digging in a hex. Generate a Relic on the 5th use of Digging in that same hex."

:fire - Burning I & II: "Enemy players that attempt to stay on the same hex as you after 2 turns discard 1 (2?) card(s) every turn afterward until they leave the hex or a duel is fought with you."

:air - New ability, Rolling Thunder (Replace the 'Something' skill): "2 AP: Call out thunder to startle players on a nearby target hex. They cannot use the Siege or (Aggressive) Attack moves for 1-2 turns."

:air - New ability, Silence I & II (for Skills 5 & 9): "Target nearby hex - players on that hex cannot use any/deactivates all of their special skills from their skill trees for 1 (2) turns."

:water - Conjuration I & II: "2 AP: Conjure a previously held *item of level 3 (6) or below."
* = referring to those special items not related to cards ^^; Perhaps this could be replaced with Relics?



Offline Shantu

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg221820#msg221820
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2010, 11:47:32 am »
It would be nice to see some 'epic spells', which require more than one (maybe 5?) players to cast. Depending on the amount of players, this could go from smaller, but still great spells to spells that affect the whole map.

An example for :water:

Wall of Ice - 2-3 players needed
Summon a wall of ice on your hex for 3(could scale with the amount of players?) turns. No hostile players can enter or escape this hex.


This could be sieged by opposing players if they wanted to break through. They would have to fight the players standing on the hex that are of the same element as the creators of the wall.

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg222667#msg222667
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2010, 05:15:12 am »
Thanks for all new ideas. I'll look into them very soon.


In other news.. I made some changes to skill trees. Here are some new rules and changes:

- All Tier 1 skills have to be very simple and not very strong. Some of them were way too powerful so I had to nerf them.

- Previously all skill trees has one "pair" of skills like "Name I" and "Name II". That made design difficult. Having these pairs is no longer required.

- I moved around some skills to make it more balanced. Some skill trees that were ready yesterday, are again unfinished.

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg222773#msg222773
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2010, 11:16:50 am »
About the Light Champion skill... it seems slightly UP... What about making it so the opponent can only use Light upped cards. If that's too strong you can make it so only Light cards can be used in the battle. This way it also affects the user.
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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg223043#msg223043
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2010, 06:42:29 pm »
An idea I had for entropy:  Mutate.

Change all copies of target card into copies of the same different card.

E.G, change all six of your FFQs into six lava golems.

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg223136#msg223136
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2010, 07:59:34 pm »
As you may or may not know, google docs is blocked in China or something, so I can't see any of the skill trees unless someone takes screenies and PMs me the screenies (but they can't be hosted on imageshack, cuz that's blocked too >.>)

I hope I won't be the only person in WoE with these types of problems. Then again, if i was, would i get special treatment? ^^

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg224592#msg224592
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2010, 03:50:58 pm »
So close! I can taste the finalized trees... >_<

:aether - (Tier 1) Portal Network: 2 AP. Target a friendly player on the map; you may now conduct trade with them if they have this ability and if they're not in a duel. 4 turn recharge.
{Basically opens a portal for two players to trade with each other, but not move to each other on the map}

:water - (Tier 3) Arctic Mage: Whenever you win a duel near a Water hex or in a Blizzard, the enemy player must replace an additional 3-6 of their cards with either Freeze or Ice Bolt.

:time - Name the Tier 2 ability for Time to "Foresight" or "Confabulation", in regards to the... 'Before battle, ask your opponent one deck related question. He or she must answer truthfully 'yes' or 'no'." skill.

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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg224676#msg224676
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2010, 06:48:24 pm »
Since Time is missing two skills right now, I'm wondering if I could suggest some kind of 'precognition' skill.

It could be called fortunetelling, forecast or divination, to avoid giving 'precognition' multiple meanings.

The basic idea is that your opponent has to give you some hint about the deck he is going to use (some time before the duel, eg. when you are arranging the time to duel, so that you have enough time to design your deck). The hint should be useful enough to help, but not big enough to allow you to completely predict the deck.

For example, if it was a Tier 1 skill, the hint could be the number of elements used (eg. mono/duo/rainbow), or the number of cards used.
If it was a Tier 2 skill, the hint could be 'a name of a non-pillar non-pendulum card, that the deck uses at least 3 copies of', or maybe something like the average cost of the cards used.

I don't really know, maybe someone can come up with better suggestions that would follow the theme.
Of course, if it's too complicated or the idea needs to be scrapped for other reasons, I'm fine with it. I simply wonder if some skill of this kind would be seen as limiting to the opponent (since he has to avoid predictable decks) or as an opportunity (he makes a big deck, trying to trick you into thinking that it's a stall... then it proves to be a phat rush, or for example he announces that the deck will be rainbow, but in fact uses cards like animate weapon/upped sundial/photon/spark and only 2 or even only 1 type of quanta).

It could even be added as a one use item available to buy in Time towns and cities, that would force your next opponent to give you a hint.



Also, it seems that 'some Time ago, in a galaxy far far away' Blizzard already designed a number of skills for Time Elementals:
http://eu.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml
http://www.diablowiki.net/Archivist

Namely:

    * Book Vision: Which makes every book on screen glow a golden color, the use of this is not mentioned.
    * Lorenado: A Tornado of books ripple out from the Archivist, ripping apart any one foolish enough to stand in his way.
    * Quest Bolt: Sends out a golden exclamation mark that travels straight until it hits something. When an enemy is hit, they are "Frozen", for a Quest Mark appears above they're heads, indicating they have a quest for the player.
    * Shush: The Archivist lets out a "Shush", after which, all enemies within 30 feet are ripped to shreds.
Not bad. It could work.

But one issue is that it would either..

A) Limit deckbuilding :time of the other player because he has to tell details of his deck before he has even had :time to design it
B) Give the player who uses it, very little :time to use the information to his advantage

I guess we could do it so that the deck info is released 5-10 minutes before the duel. This way the :time player has some :time to tweak his deck. It's not much, but it's still better than limiting the deckbuilding :time of the opponent.

One option would be this: let the player ask one yes or no question before the battle. For example I could ask "Do you have any Novas in your deck?", and my opponent would be forced to reply truthfully yes or no. I could be pretty cool. :)
So I think the best name would be Foresight, or Forecast. As for the 'yes-no' question thing, the problem is that questions can be very vague, and also people might misunderstand themselves. For example:
-Is your deck fast? / Is your deck a stall/control deck? etc. are hard to answer due to blurry definitions of 'fast', 'stall' etc.
-Is your deck a bolter deck? (what should the person answer if his deck has 3 bolts for example?)
-Is your deck cute? (lol, no comment xD)
-Does your deck contain permanents? (Did he mean non-weapon non-shield permanents? Or are weapons and shields also considered permanents? Even if there are 'global definitions' for these, people might still misunderstand each other due to the colloquialy used definitions that are different, or even due to M:tG confusion :P
-Does your deck contain creature control? (Is PU considered creature control? How about procrastination? How about plate armor + gravity shield?)

So I guess there needs to be a list of allowed questions, or some other solution to make it more precise. Although I do think it would be one of the funnier skills, causing many fun situations :D

As for the issue of how much time before the battle should the answer be known, I'd stay with the 'when they are scheduling the duel'. That's because the answering player only partially limits his deckbuilding when he answers the question. He probably has some general idea for his deck at the time, and he can adjust details after answering the question, as long as as the answer is still true. On the other hand, the asking person might have to completely rebuild his deck depending on the answer, and if the answer was given 5 minutes before the duel, the asking person would simply have to design two decks beforehand, optimized for each answer :P , and use one of them depending on the answer.

Of course, the latter is also an option, simply forcing the Time player to do some more deckbuilding :P (let him pay for choosing so irritating skillz)




As for :water, I'd say they are an element of controlled changes (in contrast to :entropy - the element of random changes), and also a good element to give some wizardry/sorcery powers (making their spells more powerful or something), so I'd say we should move the Convert skill from :entropy to :water (It's a very powerful Tier 1 skill in my opinion, certainly one of my first off-element picks), and maybe split it into:
Tier 1 - Convert I - 1AP: Convert up to 3 creatures/pillars to any non-rare creatures/pillars of your choosing.
Tier 2 - Convert II - 1AP: Convert up to 3 spells or permanents to any non-rare spells/permanents of your choosing.

And their Tier 3 skill could be something related to global spells... maybe "consume a relic - cast any Tier 1 or Tier 2 spell"




As for :air, I'd change their skill:
Ambush  - First duel gets restarted until you win the coin toss.
Into:
Ambush  - If opponent wins his first coin toss, he skips his first turn. (ie. ends turn without playing anything)

The original skill could be irritating if either the players are constantly desyncing or simply RNG hates them. The changed version is in fact very similar, although the consequence is that on average it gives the air player 1 card advantage, but hinders some deck-out strategies a little.
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Re: Skill Trees - New and Improved! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17109.msg224716#msg224716
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2010, 08:19:38 pm »
I'm liking how the skill trees are working out.... although now it's gonna make it tough to figure out which path to take. (I guess that's not a big problem) lol

Anyways, I noticed that some elements don't have their champion abilities yet... so I jotted down some ideas. (Most of these just popped into my head, so they aren't too thought out as to if they're OP or UP)

 :air
Your opponent may only use Flying creatures.
(might be really UP)

 :earth
Your opponent may only place one pillar/tower/pendulum in play per turn.
(might be OP) lol
[maybe one per stack?]

 :fire
If you win 2-0, your opponent discards their deck.
(the amount could always be adjusted)

 :life
If you win 2-0, your victory is an EM victory.
(would work well with the 'Predator' ability
[or maybe with 70+ HP]

 :water
If your opponent has 7+ creatures in play, they may not play anymore.

 

blarg: