I like it, but this brings up three questions:1. They don't all have to be unique. We have two ways to avoid having to come up with 156 different skills.
1) Does each tree have 12 DIFFERENT skills? O_o (So Fear, Undead, March, etc. for :death?) If so, this might be a little complicated to think about 12 unique skills for each element, but then I suppose it would also be very interesting to see how diverse these skills could be for individual elements... :)
2) Should there be a limit for how many tiers of an element you can reach? For example, if I (as a Time player) were to get to Tier 4 (Champion) for the Time skills, should I also be able to reach the same level for another Element? Or should I just be automatically disqualified from being the Champion of (insert element here) because I'm already a Champion for Time?
3) In order to become a Champion for an element, one must then learn all of the skills of a chosen element, correct?
...that said, I purpose that Champions should be given a special long-ranged 'Disaster' skill for their final ability, as that could be the epiphany of what a Champion (I need to find another word for that XD) elemental can do. :P Floods, sandstorms, and volcanic eruptions anyone?
I have actually been brainstorming for another area of the forums, which is a type of story that is to be collaboratively made, Elements High.Before you go any further, I must warn you that Masters do not get any special treatment in WoE. They start out as regular players like everyone else.
I was thinking that Masters of each Element would have some skills, as they are Masters of their element. There is some clear overlap in terms of what the skills in WoE could be and maybe of what they will be and as such will present what I have thus far for Masters of Elements.
I'll post more later, but for now one can consider these:Access Dimension
- Master of :aether Aether:
Teleportation [Self][Other][Object]
[/li]Create Portal[/li][/list][/li][li]Master of :air Air:Flight
[/li]Sound Distortion
[/li]Asphyxiation
[/li]Wind Carry *(aether)
[/li]Wind Push *(aether)[/li][/list][/li][li]Master of :darkness Darkness:Demoralize
[/li]Induce Fear
[/li]Darkness Shroud[/li][/list][/li][/list]will continue later...
*While a manipulation of one element can assist you in that skill, another Element may be able to interrupt or overpower that skill due to that skill being specifically related to their element.
I believe that the two paths should be caster and fighter: mastering both will make you a champion of your element.Yes, this is the basic idea. Caster, Fighter.. Healer, Damager, etc. Basically paths would be either opposite or very different.
How would these affect the fights.. now that's something I don't know. :)
Since you need water paths, I would suggest something along the lines of Fisherman/Harpooner/Tide Hunter (somewhat who hunts/has control over ocean life), and a Wizard/Mage (someone who uses all forms of water via ice, steam, you name it, and has good alchemy skills in addition). Another path for Air could be Storm Bringer (in opposition of Eagle Rider, who I'm guessing is more of a bird person). The Storm Bringer could be more of a person who focuses on the power of wind, lightning, and all the forces of nature, while the Eagle Rider is more about controlling the elements of flight and animals.Good ideas. Thanks. I'll look into it once I get some coffee and my brain starts to work again.
I'm kind of not feeling the 'Randomizer' Path, because that seems a bit odd for a path name. ^^;;; My suggestion (compared to Trickster, which would be about manipulation of others for better or worse), would be Shapeshifter (which would be about manipulation of self). Trickster = Discord and Mutation, Shapeshifter = Werewolf and Chaos Power.
I have a few more ideas, but... meh. ^^;
I'm hesitant to make crafting element specific.Crafting is not really element specific because you can pick skills from any skill tree. You can either focus one one skill tree and maybe become a champion.. or spread those points around to make your skills more well-rounded.
I'd much rather any player has the ability to take any crafting, but you can only pick one. It adds another aspect of strategy and balance.
Oh one more thing. I thought that it would be a good idea to make the more powerful skills to be used together with a Relic. Basically you consume one Relic to make the skill work. If you don't have a Relic, you cannot use that skill. This would give the useless card found in the game, some meaning in WoE, so I think it fits.
Relics can be found, looted, quest rewards, bought, etc.
So, how many skill points do you get each level? Maybe one would be too little?I think that one per level makes most sense. If we need players to get skills faster, we can simply tweak XP requirements.
My problem with that is that only 20 skill points for life seems too little. This means only 8 non-elemental skills if you play on being a champion.So, how many skill points do you get each level? Maybe one would be too little?I think that one per level makes most sense. If we need players to get skills faster, we can simply tweak XP requirements.
Also keep in mind that the first few levels are very easy to get. You only need a couple of XP.
That's the whole point. :) If you want to become the best, you need to focus your energy on one thing. If you want to be a Jack-of-all-Trades, you won't be a Champion.My problem with that is that only 20 skill points for life seems too little. This means only 8 non-elemental skills if you play on being a champion.So, how many skill points do you get each level? Maybe one would be too little?I think that one per level makes most sense. If we need players to get skills faster, we can simply tweak XP requirements.
Also keep in mind that the first few levels are very easy to get. You only need a couple of XP.
If trades between players are allowed (which I assume they are), then having a group where each one takes a single crafting skill would be a smart thing to do. Adds more flavor to the whole thing.That would be a fun strategy indeed... ;)
| Spy - This Elemental is adept at gathering information about his opponents without recourse or detction. | ||
| Steal - Thiselemental can steal from locations or other elementals | ||
| Evasion - This Elemental cannot be attacked directly and has a 50% chance of avoiding an indirect encounter | Dark Huntsman - This Elemental is quite capable of assaulting other elementals tracking and muredering them | |
| Assassinate - This elemental strikes first in combat | ||
| Stealth - This Elemental cannot be seen | Champion of Darkness | |
| Obfuscation - This elemental can return any result it wishes from being seen Ie it can show itself as an Air elemental with air cards and return false information about observations of it. | ||
| Shadowwalk - This elemental can travel faster by using the shadows | Dark Mystic - This elemental can assault elementals with obfuscation or drain at range | |
| Drain - The Elemental is healed by damaging/defeating its opponent | ||
| Yin - This elemental can offset any positive bonus giving it to this elemental istead |
I took a look at the skills tree as a master and don't really like the monster summoning and such. If I was making a skill tree for a darkness elemental it might look like this. note they are titles and themes not actuall game mechanics. I'd rather not step there without knowing more.
[table snip]
Guys, you realise that you can't damage players, right? How would that even work?I was thinking the same thing. It's not so RPG like that we'd have health outside of battle. If we lose a duel, I imagine that's how we die and are resurrected back in the capital city after a turn.
I'm sure he meant 'discard 3 cards' rather than taking 3 damage, but... yeah. ^^;Guys, you realise that you can't damage players, right? How would that even work?I was thinking the same thing. It's not so RPG like that we'd have health outside of battle. If we lose a duel, I imagine that's how we die and are resurrected back in the capital city after a turn.
I re-read the whole topic from the start and found some great ideas. Thanks for all who posted.
Unfortunately there's also tons of good ideas that just cannot be used because of how WoE is run. Short explanation is that any kills that have an effect that lasts a long time and affects everyone, is a bad idea, because it would be really difficult for the organizers to keep track of that.
But I think that many of those discarded ideas can be still salvaged by tweaking them a bit. I'll see what I can do.
Meanwhile feel free to suggest new skills. Don't worry if skills already have a name, those can be changed. Basically anything that has "***", can be changed to whatever.
I'm also interested in super powerful Champion skills. To see what I mean, check out :darkness :death and :entropy examples I just posted. They are not final though.
I got it! For Time it can be: If you get below 40 health in a battle, draw until you get a full hand and generate 15 quanta.Problem with ideas like this is that they would require us to change the game. We cannot do that. We have to use what the game has and use creative tricks to buff and nerf things.
The Champion of Darkness ability seems to conflict with the Backstabbing one; if you're converting someone to your side, are you really going to force them to discard?Yeah.. I see what you mean but I don't see it as a big problem. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
Also, that one rule where you can't learn the skills of your opposing element makes me sad. I was planning to go Darkness/Light.We haven't made a decision on that just yet. I do like giving players as many options as possible, but it would also make sense to not be able to use the skills of your sworn enemy. Also it would probably require some special training place, since you cannot enter the city of the element you are at war with.
I feel that Entropy champion is way too strong - if you know that every fight is going to be vs a pillarless rush (because you can't make anything else pillarless), it is easy to make a counter. And you've got your unbeatable player.Pendulums.
Perhaps it would be better if you simply couldn't obtain mastery of your element if you chose to pick skills from your opposite. That way, you would have to be a jack-of-all-trades if you do. I dislike restrictions as much as anyone else, and some just aren't necessary to maintain the thematic value.Hey, that's a pretty good idea actually.
As for Darkness Champion, I feel it's even appropriate the one you corrupt loses power in some way.
We haven't made a decision on that just yet. I do like giving players as many options as possible, but it would also make sense to not be able to use the skills of your sworn enemy. Also it would probably require some special training place, since you cannot enter the city of the element you are at war with.Darkness does have the Disguise skill...
I have to agree on the Entropy Champion. The only way to beat Discord is to produce more than it can scramble so that you can either destroy it or power through completely. With Pendulums, your quanta production is half as focused as with pillars. It's a huge problem. That leaves you with Immo/Nova and silly good timing.If Quantum Pillars were allowed, I don't see it as that big of a deal. Then again combined with all the other :entropy skills, it might be very close to unbeatable.
Yes, that is true :)We haven't made a decision on that just yet. I do like giving players as many options as possible, but it would also make sense to not be able to use the skills of your sworn enemy. Also it would probably require some special training place, since you cannot enter the city of the element you are at war with.Darkness does have the Disguise skill...
I really dislike the Darkness Champion skill. Especially if that converting is permanent, it might lead to:Yes, it's definitely too powerful. We cannot really start moving players from one team to another.
- Players Rage Quitting
- Players betraying Darkness in secret
- More to come
I was thinking an alternative where you need to give half of the cards you own to :darkness Champion. Yes, I know it sounds crazy but it's supposed to be powerful :)Not too bad. Actually might be pretty weak if you get to choose the cards. I mean, you could always keep your unupped cards pool as big (or bigger) than the upped cards pool. What if you have to give him something like 1/3 of your account's value (Electrum + cards' total cost)
Hmm.. misread it. Still..I feel that Entropy champion is way too strong - if you know that every fight is going to be vs a pillarless rush (because you can't make anything else pillarless), it is easy to make a counter. And you've got your unbeatable player.Pendulums.
And I was also considering the possibility of letting them use Quantum Pillars and Towers.
The problem is that it's hard to balance in-duel advantages with out-of-duel advantages. The in-duel ones are generally better.Hmm.. misread it. Still..I feel that Entropy champion is way too strong - if you know that every fight is going to be vs a pillarless rush (because you can't make anything else pillarless), it is easy to make a counter. And you've got your unbeatable player.Pendulums.
And I was also considering the possibility of letting them use Quantum Pillars and Towers.
Entropy Champion fights random Light elemental.
Entropy Champion, using his skills, disallows his opponent to use:
- Mark of Light (with Trickster)
- Any pillars (with Champion)
- Light Pendulum (with Diversion I)
- Novas (with Diversion II)
And forces the Light elemental to use at least 3 QPs (with Confusion)
This means that the Light elemental will have no quanta at all for his element and must use Immolations or Quantum Pillars, both of which can be countered by Black Hole and other funny cards.
EDIT: Wait a second! Trickster > Light Champion ability >:DI was going to add something to :light Master. Plus Trickster is probably going to get hit by the nerf bat.
How will the effects that target your opponent's deck effect work against NPC opponents?The...same way? at least when it comes to cards in their deck, or so I'd suspect.
I'm assuming that each NPC has their own set deck, so skills such as Diversion pose a problem if they do. Unlike us, they don't have a Vault of cards to switch up their decks with in accordance with such a skill.How will the effects that target your opponent's deck effect work against NPC opponents?The...same way? at least when it comes to cards in their deck, or so I'd suspect.
*snip*I have some ideas about this, just keep reading :)
I haven't compared skill trees much, so there might be some serious balance issues. I personally thing that :earth is currently the king of lame skills, and really needs something cool. Other elements have all kinds of cool PvP skills while :earth players are digging holes.
Actually it makes sense now that I think about it. They are digging their own graves. :)D: that is most definately not cool....
I find it remarkable that I like almost every single one of your ideas. Believe me when I tell you that it's something that doesn't happen every day.Is it possible by chance that I could use this as a note to add to my resume? ^^;;;
If I ever want to experience how it feels like to live below the poverty line by quitting my day job and becoming a full-time game designer, I might have to hire you. :)
So I think the best name would be Foresight, or Forecast. As for the 'yes-no' question thing, the problem is that questions can be very vague, and also people might misunderstand themselves. For example:Since Time is missing two skills right now, I'm wondering if I could suggest some kind of 'precognition' skill.Not bad. It could work.
It could be called fortunetelling, forecast or divination, to avoid giving 'precognition' multiple meanings.
The basic idea is that your opponent has to give you some hint about the deck he is going to use (some time before the duel, eg. when you are arranging the time to duel, so that you have enough time to design your deck). The hint should be useful enough to help, but not big enough to allow you to completely predict the deck.
For example, if it was a Tier 1 skill, the hint could be the number of elements used (eg. mono/duo/rainbow), or the number of cards used.
If it was a Tier 2 skill, the hint could be 'a name of a non-pillar non-pendulum card, that the deck uses at least 3 copies of', or maybe something like the average cost of the cards used.
I don't really know, maybe someone can come up with better suggestions that would follow the theme.
Of course, if it's too complicated or the idea needs to be scrapped for other reasons, I'm fine with it. I simply wonder if some skill of this kind would be seen as limiting to the opponent (since he has to avoid predictable decks) or as an opportunity (he makes a big deck, trying to trick you into thinking that it's a stall... then it proves to be a phat rush, or for example he announces that the deck will be rainbow, but in fact uses cards like animate weapon/upped sundial/photon/spark and only 2 or even only 1 type of quanta).
It could even be added as a one use item available to buy in Time towns and cities, that would force your next opponent to give you a hint.
Also, it seems that 'some Time ago, in a galaxy far far away' Blizzard already designed a number of skills for Time Elementals:
http://eu.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml
http://www.diablowiki.net/Archivist
Namely:
* Book Vision: Which makes every book on screen glow a golden color, the use of this is not mentioned.
* Lorenado: A Tornado of books ripple out from the Archivist, ripping apart any one foolish enough to stand in his way.
* Quest Bolt: Sends out a golden exclamation mark that travels straight until it hits something. When an enemy is hit, they are "Frozen", for a Quest Mark appears above they're heads, indicating they have a quest for the player.
* Shush: The Archivist lets out a "Shush", after which, all enemies within 30 feet are ripped to shreds.
But one issue is that it would either..
A) Limit deckbuilding :time of the other player because he has to tell details of his deck before he has even had :time to design it
B) Give the player who uses it, very little :time to use the information to his advantage
I guess we could do it so that the deck info is released 5-10 minutes before the duel. This way the :time player has some :time to tweak his deck. It's not much, but it's still better than limiting the deckbuilding :time of the opponent.
One option would be this: let the player ask one yes or no question before the battle. For example I could ask "Do you have any Novas in your deck?", and my opponent would be forced to reply truthfully yes or no. I could be pretty cool. :)