Money and revenue

[Krahhl]

If we're giving revenue every 3 turns instead, as has been suggested, numbers would be easier to work with. But I think all revenue should just be increased overall; a single card costs 100 electrum, making 1 electrum per turn seem rather pointless.

[TimerClock14]

If we're giving revenue every 3 turns instead, as has been suggested, numbers would be easier to work with. But I think all revenue should just be increased overall; a single card costs 100 electrum, making 1 electrum per turn seem rather pointless.

perhaps increase the current revenue system we have threefold and go from there?

[Ekki]

Are we sure there will be 100 players for each element? (I mean, if you were speaking true numbers) Because that would actually make 1-3 electrum per hexe (and round) too low, as you said...
Fortunately, that can be easily solved, hopefully in beta version

[Krahhl]

100 was just a random number when I said it, but I don't doubt we will have at least that many. Wars have over 100 people, and space is limited. There are then many who want to join but can't. In WoE, everyone would be able to participate.

The main point of my suggestion is to make revenue based on the number of total players, rather than just a fixed value of 1-3 per hex. I don't mean it shouldn't be based on hexes controlled as well, but as I said, the base number determined from hexes should be scaled proportionately to the number of people. This way each person gets the same amount of revenue if there are 500 people as if there are 50 people, rather than 10 times less.

As for revenue simply being too low to begin with, that's probably something that can be figured out when it is actually implemented and tested. Right now, 2 electrum per round doesn't sound too appealing to me.

[Ekki]

Ok then, I got confused when you said 1-2 electrum per round and that stuff

As far as I know, there will be sort of an "imbalance limit" between teams (i.e. when an Element has too many players it's closed until the whole thing is fixed), so the revenue per hex should be determined based on the TOTAL number of players, not in each element. Also remember that cities and towns (foretresses?) also give you electrum per round, and that we'll have time to fix that in beta version.

But I agree that 1-2 electrum per round would suck 

[Krahhl]

the revenue per hex should be determined based on the TOTAL number of players, not in each element.

make revenue based on the number of total players

That's what I said .-.

But yeah, I guess everything will be worked out in due time. I'm just tossing out my thoughts beforehand.

[Ekki]

Huh, my bad, it was TimerClock's idea

[Scaredgirl]

I've been thinking about this revenue system for the past few days. Like Krahhl said earlier, round revenue must be related to number of players, otherwise players who joined WoE early, would get tons of revenue, while players who join later, would get peanuts.

We should have a total revenue generated based on number of players in WoE, for example 50 generated per player. This total revenue would then be divided into 410 shares.

12 x Cities: 6 shares
24 x Towns: 3 shares
122 x Others: 1 share
----------------------------
TOTAL SHARES: 410

There are 158 hexes that can be controlled (Outlaw City and Omnitron are always neutral). Each hex generates revenue based on whether or not it has a city or town on it. Cities take 6 shares, towns take 3 and all other hexes take 1 share.

Example: There are 100 players in WoE. Total revenue generated is 5000 :electum . This would mean that one share is roughly 12.2 , which would mean that hexes generate revenue as follows:

City hex: 73
Town hex: 37
Other hexes: 12

While this might sound very complex, it's actually very simple because we use Google Docs spreadsheets which can do all this boring math automatically. We should also be able to do a script that distributes revenue to character sheets automatically.

All this is still subject to change of course, especially that 50 per player, which is just a random number I took from thin air.

Post any comments or ideas. Thanks.

[Daxx]

...that sounds hugely complicated, in an event which is rapidly becoming too complicated to play even though it's missing half its features.

My philosophy on simplicity in game design is that it's not just required to keep the maths easy - it also makes rules more parsimonous and harmonious, and therefore easier to understand and consider as a holistic set.

Most game design theory suggests that there are different sorts of reactions to complicated rulesets, but a really important thing to remember is that many people do not like them and will be put off a game because of them; in contrast people who actively enjoy complicated rules are less likely to be put off because they can deal with the emergent complexity instead.

I'm also concerned about google docs creep, but I believe I noted that elsewhere so it's probably a good idea to keep all the discussion in the same place.

[Kakerlake]

@ SG,
As I've understood your system, it can be made MUCH more simpler than you explained it.
Just skip the mathematical part and make it like this:

Each City produces 0.72 per Player.
Each Town produces 0.36 per Player.
Each Other produces 0.12 per Player.

Simple as that.
Well, the number popped up like this, because of your random 50 per player. Can of course be changed into anything.

So for 100 Players you get your:
City hex: 72
Town hex: 36
Other hexes: 12
With a little rounding fail.

[Scaredgirl]

I think you guys misunderstood how it would work in reality.

When using spreadsheet formulas, what I suggested couldn't be any more simple. It doesn't matter how complex the formula is because it's all automatic (counted by Google Docs). Players don't have to count anything, they just get the revenue handed to them.

All players need to know really is that towns produce 3 times, and cities 6 times, the revenue a regular hex produces.

[Kakerlake]

You are right that a simple excell chart is plenty to make any complicated mathematical formula into a simple: add a number, take out result.
But why would you want to make the idea somewhat complicated, so you need a spreadsheet, when you can keep it simple enough for every participant to calculate it him/herself?

Many folks may like to know how much money they will get in the next round for planning ahead, without having to ask a mod / using spreadsheet each time.

I like the idea and it looks like you've put quite some thought into it. But sadly not everyone is with mathematical skill gifted. So IMO going down to the basics is the best option, especially since the resault is exactly the same.