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Kael Hate

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101732#msg101732
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2010, 10:02:59 pm »
Are tiles going to be Identical in nature or have Environmental Variables? Ie will they all take the same effort to move through and/or generate a fair resource? Will there be mountainsa nd forests and rivers and stuff or is it all just a tile with ownership to an element?

miniwally

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101738#msg101738
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2010, 10:05:13 pm »
Are tiles going to be Identical in nature or have Environmental Variables? Ie will they all take the same effort to move through and/or generate a fair resource? Will there be mountainsa nd forests and rivers and stuff or is it all just a tile with ownership to an element?
Well with people saying symmetrical I'd have to guess that it would mean there'd be no environmental effect on tiles.

Kael Hate

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101741#msg101741
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2010, 10:07:24 pm »
Are tiles going to be Identical in nature or have Environmental Variables? Ie will they all take the same effort to move through and/or generate a fair resource? Will there be mountainsa nd forests and rivers and stuff or is it all just a tile with ownership to an element?
Well with people saying symmetrical I'd have to guess that it would mean there'd be no environmental effect on tiles.
SG has declared non-symetrical see update in first post.

miniwally

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101744#msg101744
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2010, 10:08:41 pm »
Are tiles going to be Identical in nature or have Environmental Variables? Ie will they all take the same effort to move through and/or generate a fair resource? Will there be mountainsa nd forests and rivers and stuff or is it all just a tile with ownership to an element?
Well with people saying symmetrical I'd have to guess that it would mean there'd be no environmental effect on tiles.
SG has declared non-symetrical see update in first post.
Oh never realised after all the people seemed to be wanting symmetrical but glad it'll be non-symmetrical after all.

Kael Hate

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101753#msg101753
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2010, 10:19:56 pm »
Are tiles going to be Identical in nature or have Environmental Variables? Ie will they all take the same effort to move through and/or generate a fair resource? Will there be mountainsa nd forests and rivers and stuff or is it all just a tile with ownership to an element?
Well with people saying symmetrical I'd have to guess that it would mean there'd be no environmental effect on tiles.
SG has declared non-symetrical see update in first post.
Oh never realised after all the people seemed to be wanting symmetrical but glad it'll be non-symmetrical after all.
From what i've read more people wanted Symmetrically Fair but it was against the vision SG had for the game. There was no Poll so she made an executive descision and said going a more Natural MMORPG style. If its unfair thats too bad, there won't be an offset for player on an element so its just how it flows. I guess a bonus will be given to handicapped elements to bring them out of submission.

miniwally

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101784#msg101784
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2010, 10:41:56 pm »
I was actually for it anyway.....

Offline Kuroaitou

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101819#msg101819
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2010, 11:14:09 pm »
Well, since hexagons are technically 6 times cooler than a triangle, I suppose the hexagonal map will work. :D

Since the map is now going to be non-symmetrical in every way possible (rotational, reflective, translative, etc.), I guess they we should probably figure out how many spaces total the map should have. Assuming that each base is composed of say, 6 hexagons +1 for the elemental 'core' area, and you'd have to take down all 7 spaces to have that element 'destroyed', what would be a good number for the amount of regular non-elemental affiliated areas?

...I'm probably ahead of myself when I say this, but oh well.

miniwally

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg101821#msg101821
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2010, 11:17:42 pm »
Wouldn't this be a sort of risk-esque style map? If so might take a look at conquer club (which I used to go on) to get some ideas ofc the problem there is that those positions are random where as I don't think these will be but they have to be pretty balanced anyway so that holding one position won't win you the game.

Scaredgirl

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg102109#msg102109
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2010, 11:40:29 am »
From what i've read more people wanted Symmetrically Fair but it was against the vision SG had for the game. There was no Poll so she made an executive descision and said going a more Natural MMORPG style. If its unfair thats too bad, there won't be an offset for player on an element so its just how it flows. I guess a bonus will be given to handicapped elements to bring them out of submission.
Actually I made the decision about non-symmetrical map and hexagons long before I posted this topic. And I'm really hoping you were joking about that poll.

You, and others who wanted a symmetrical map, didn't take into consideration that the teams would be unbalanced, therefore making a symmetrical map pretty much the worst possible choice. It's like playing chess where your opponent starts with more pieces than you. On top of being unfair, it's also incredibly boring.

"living" map, global events, etc. is the only possible way to balance this event, and it also make this event more epic, so that's what we are going to use.



Here's what I'm thinking:

Map has to be big, so maybe 12 hexagons per element?

- 1 capital city
- 2 smaller cities
- 3 fortresses
- 3 resources
- 3 blank hexagons
--------------------------
TOTAL 12

Something like that.

Then the map would be kind of circular, with each element having two other elements it shares borders with. In the middle would be the "no-mans-land" and the "Outlaw City", aka 'Other' area. It could also be 12 squares, or maybe 24.

Kael Hate

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg102120#msg102120
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2010, 12:16:14 pm »
Losiing my post just sucks. (lost my post)

You, and others who wanted a symmetrical map, didn't take into consideration that the teams would be unbalanced, therefore making a symmetrical map pretty much the worst possible choice. It's like playing chess where your opponent starts with more pieces than you. On top of being unfair, it's also incredibly boring.

Yeah I did think it about multiple player bases and balance and personally think its a better choice. Not important tho cause you're going MMORPG Flat map style.

Then the map would be kind of circular, with each element having two other elements it shares borders with. In the middle would be the "no-mans-land" and the "Outlaw City", aka 'Other' area. It could also be 12 squares, or maybe 24.
Can I play for team Other? or are players limited to Elemental memberships only?

miniwally

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg102184#msg102184
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2010, 02:55:17 pm »
I don't think you should be allowed to play as other as you're ruling your element as an elementalist where as other isn't an element.

Offline the dictator

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Re: MAP - All map discussions here please https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8583.msg102212#msg102212
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2010, 03:49:25 pm »
I have to say, It's getting better and better, but I think, you shouldn't do 12 hexagon's for each elements, but 19, because you can order them this way:

1:
 :aether

7:
    :aether :aether
 :aether :aether :aether
    :aether :aether

19:
       :aether :aether :aether
    :aether :aether :aether :aether
 :aether :aether :aether :aether :aether
    :aether :aether :aether :aether
       :aether :aether :aether

This pattern can be used to make the map, because it is made of hexagon's again, like this:
(each element is made like above, of 1,7 or 19 hexagons (or even 37)).
 :) = other

       :air :) :earth
     :) :life :time  :)
 :aether :death :) :entropy :gravity
    :) :light :water :)
       :fire :) :darkness

*Placing of elements is completely random, and subject to change.

Or, when talking about different "worlds"

Underworld
    :) :darkness
 :death :) :)
    :) :fire

This world
    :life :)
 :) :) :gravity
    :earth :)

Heaven
    :water :)
 :) :) :light
    :air :)

Another dimension:
     :) :entropy
 :aether :) :)
    :) :time

Traveling could be done by going up or down one layer, but that would mean there could be possibly 8 people on on hexagon (6 from the different directions, and 2 from another layer).

Or using BS's, 3 layers method:

Cardinal:
    :time :)
 :) :aether :gravity
    :entropy :)

Material:
    :) :fire
 :air :water :)
    :) :earth

Spiritual:
    :light :)
 :) :darkness :life
    :death :)

As players fight for themselves, and not as a team, it doesn't matter that much which elements gets in the middle, but to balance it up, when needed, you could say you can't travel in the middle one, meaning all elements can be entered from 5 or 6 places, which seems pretty balanced.

We definitely need an other-sign

When choosing 19 hexagons for each elements, we could use:
1 capital
2 smaller cities
4 fortresses
5 recources
7 black hexagons

When chosing 7, we could do:
1 capital
2 smaller cities
1 fortress
2 recources
3 blanks

But I prefer the 19 version.

Another point FOR this idea: when needed, this can be easily enlarged, by going from 7 to 19 to 37 hexagons. The only thing that has to be done, is making each element bigger and shuffling the different types, after which players can be placed where they stood, as if there are some places added.

And, just for fun, a map of a one layer map, with each element containing 19 hexagons:

                                                       :fire :fire :fire
                                                    :fire :fire :fire :fire
                                                 :fire :fire :fire :fire :fire :) :) :)
                               :) :) :) :fire :fire :fire :fire :) :) :) :)
                            :) :) :) :) :fire :fire :fire :) :) :) :) :) :time :time :time
                         :) :) :) :) :) :earth :earth :earth :) :) :) :) :time :time :time :time
       :air :air :air :) :) :) :) :earth :earth :earth :earth :) :) :) :time :time :time :time :time
    :air :air :air :air :) :) :) :earth :earth :earth :earth :earth :life :life :life :time :time :time :time
 :air :air :air :air :air :darkness :darkness :darkness :earth :earth :earth :earth :life :life :life :life :time :time :time
    :air :air :air :air :darkness :darkness :darkness :darkness :earth :earth :earth :life :life :life :life :life :) :) :)
       :air :air :air :darkness :darkness :darkness :darkness :darkness :) :) :) :life :life :life :life :) :) :) :)
          :) :) :) :darkness :darkness :darkness :darkness :) :) :) :) :life :life :life :) :) :) :) :)
       :) :) :) :) :darkness :darkness :darkness :) :) :) :) :) :light :light :light :) :) :) :)
    :) :) :) :) :) :death :death :death :) :) :) :) :light :light :light :light :) :) :)
       :) :) :) :) :death :death :death :death :) :) :) :light :light :light :light :light :water :water :water
          :) :) :) :death :death :death :death :death :entropy :entropy :entropy :light :light :light :light :water :water :water :water
             :aether :aether :aether :death :death :death :death :entropy :entropy :entropy :entropy :light :light :light :water :water :water :water :water
          :aether :aether :aether :aether :death :death :death :entropy :entropy :entropy :entropy :entropy :) :) :) :water :water :water :water
       :aether :aether :aether :aether :aether :) :) :) :entropy :entropy :entropy :entropy :) :) :) :) :water :water :water
          :aether :aether :aether :aether :) :) :) :) :entropy :entropy :entropy :) :) :) :) :)
             :aether :aether :aether :) :) :) :) :) :gravity :gravity :gravity :) :) :) :)
                                     :) :) :) :) :gravity :gravity :gravity :gravity :) :) :)
                                        :) :) :) :gravity :gravity :gravity :gravity :gravity
                                                                :gravity :gravity :gravity :gravity
                                                                   :gravity :gravity :gravity

Yes, we definitely need an other-sign  :D
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