Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Other Topics => World of Elements => Forum Archive => WoE Archive => Topic started by: Scaredgirl on December 03, 2010, 06:00:06 am

Title: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 03, 2010, 06:00:06 am
BIG QUESTION:

Will there be actual skill trees, or only individual kills?



I'm a bit torn on whether or not we should have XP and leveling up. On one hand it would make the whole thing a LOT more complex, but on the other hand leveling up is what makes games interesting.

We could have a system where you get XP for finishing quests and killing other players. And if we have levels, we need skills as well.

I was thinking that each elements would have one skill. For example :life could have a skill which enables them to move faster through forest hexes. :death could have a skill where each creature they lose in battle, resurrects as a skeleton card (and maybe once upgraded, something better like a Mummy). Each player would start with a skill of their element. When you level up, you may choose one of the remaining 12 skills, or maybe upgrade your current skill. I don't know.

Skills would be listed in your character sheet.

Anyways, I'd like to hear opinions on XP, leveling and skills. Thanks.


SKILLS
Element
Level 1
Level 2
Level 3
:aether
Evasion I
Evasion II
Evasion III
:aether
Ride a Lightning I
Ride a Lightning II
Ride a Lightning III
:air
Ambush I
Ambush II
Ambush III
:air
Mobility I
Mobility II
Mobility III
:darkness
Stealth I
Stealth II
Stealth III
:death
Cause Fear I
Cause Fear II
Cause Fear III
:death
March I
March II
March III
:death
Undead I
Undead II
Undead III
:earth
Escape I
Escape II
Escape III
:earth
Toughness I
Toughness II
Toughness III
:earth
Digging I
Digging II
Digging III
:entropy
Diversion I
Diversion II
Diversion III
:fire
Destroy I
Destroy II
Destroy III
:fire
Bombardment I
Bombardment II
Bombardment III
:gravity
Improved Siege I
Improved Siege II
Improved Siege III
:gravity
Machinery I
Machinery II
Machinery III
:gravity
Repair I
Repair II
Repair III
:life
Hunter I
Hunter II
Hunter III
:life
Shaman I
Shaman II
Shaman III
:life
Scouting I
Scouting II
Scouting III
:light
Heal I
Heal II
Heal III
:light
Crusade I
Crusade II
Crusade III
:light
Improved Resurrection I
Improved Resurrection II
Improved Resurrection III
:time
Trading I
Trading II
Trading III
:time
Science I
Science II
Science III
:water
Waterbreathing I
Waterbreathing II
Waterbreathing III
:underworld
Smuggler I
Smuggler II
Smuggler III
:underworld
Dirty Fighting I
Dirty Fighting II
Dirty Fighting III
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Kamietsu on December 03, 2010, 07:24:09 am
I really enjoy levelling, XP, skills, the works and the such. It's always a big staple in big games, and even on a lot of forums. I would encourage everyone to help make this idea implemented.

But if it does prove to be a little much to include, we could have a basic version of it:

Everything you do gives you some amount of XP, this could be a fixed amount: Just choosing an action each turn will give you 2 XP regardless of the choice, buying a card gives you 1 XP regardless of the card, etc. The amount of XP you have determines your level, and maybe with each level you get a little extra title under your name or something.

But make XP a sort of currency where you can buy extras in the game. Like maybe for 2 turns, you have increased movement, or different things. Basically, make each thing you 'buy' with your XP last only a few turns. Being able to gain abilities permanently might be a bit much, but it's a good idea. And if you could eventually own all 12 skills, one from each element, that might make a player somewhat to a lot more powerful on the map, even if t doesn't greatly affect their dueling. But if you add a limit to the skills, and they have to regain them, it helps add a balance, also, it doesn't take away from the other items that give bonuses in the game.

Also, as for the skills, whether or not they will be turn limited or whatever, each Element should have similar skills and more than one. Such as your  :life example, I think every element should have a skill that gives them the ability to move faster through that element's terrain.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 03, 2010, 08:21:09 am
I really enjoy levelling, XP, skills, the works and the such. It's always a big staple in big games, and even on a lot of forums. I would encourage everyone to help make this idea implemented.

But if it does prove to be a little much to include, we could have a basic version of it:

Everything you do gives you some amount of XP, this could be a fixed amount: Just choosing an action each turn will give you 2 XP regardless of the choice, buying a card gives you 1 XP regardless of the card, etc. The amount of XP you have determines your level, and maybe with each level you get a little extra title under your name or something.

But make XP a sort of currency where you can buy extras in the game. Like maybe for 2 turns, you have increased movement, or different things. Basically, make each thing you 'buy' with your XP last only a few turns. Being able to gain abilities permanently might be a bit much, but it's a good idea. And if you could eventually own all 12 skills, one from each element, that might make a player somewhat to a lot more powerful on the map, even if t doesn't greatly affect their dueling. But if you add a limit to the skills, and they have to regain them, it helps add a balance, also, it doesn't take away from the other items that give bonuses in the game.
That is one option.

I was actually thinking about an even simpler version, again copying it directly from MMO's.

You would have two ways to get XP:

1. Kill something (gain XP based on the level of your opponent)
2. Finish a quest (based on difficulty)

For each 100 XP you gain, you get one level. For one level, you get one skill. Skills must be trained at a specific place. If you want a :life skill, you need to travel to :life city.

Something like that.

Getting XP simply by using action points sounds wrong to me. You could in theory just walk around and become a great warrior :)


Also, as for the skills, whether or not they will be turn limited or whatever, each Element should have similar skills and more than one. Such as your  :life example, I think every element should have a skill that gives them the ability to move faster through that element's terrain.
Hm.. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that there's no reason not to make skills unique, just like cards are unique in the game.

If we think about theme, it makes sense that :life creatures move fast when in forest (because of adrenaline and such). However :death creatures moving fast when they enter a graveyard hex, doesn't sound right to me. :earth moving fast on mountains and :water moving fast on water fit, but I don't think all elements need their own fast move ability. I'm not 100% against it, but I think more variation would work better.




I will now start collect some skill ideas here. Maybe we could start with one skill for each element, and with 3 levels. For example:

Hunter I
Hunter II
Hunter III
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 03, 2010, 09:16:58 am
Ok I added tons of ideas. I haven't added what these skills actually do yet, but some of them are pretty self-explanatory. Others, I have no idea what they do but they sound cool. :)
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Kamietsu on December 03, 2010, 09:29:58 am
How about adding a digging ability to Earth? Maybe they could use an action point to dig on a certain tile to try and dig up an item or card.


That is a good point about a fast travel skill for each elements.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 03, 2010, 09:34:27 am
How about adding a digging ability to Earth? Maybe they could use an action point to dig on a certain tile to try and dig up an item or card.
I like it. Nice way to collect some extra resources.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Daxx on December 03, 2010, 11:32:29 am
How about the ability to trade in reputation (to a minimum of 0) with an npc somewhere to gain skills? In theory this could mean that the most dedicated players can get skills from other elements, whilst given the slow gain of reputation the skill gain won't unbalance the game for older players compared to newbies. Most reputation gain is with your own element but you can in theory try to grind other elements. Also it would mean you'd have to choose your attacks carefully because it'd be quite easy to lose rep for other elements.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Dragoon on December 03, 2010, 12:14:30 pm
I love the idea of XP and skills!  It may add more complication but it adds more depth to the game I think.  Also, instead of a linear upgrade path, what about a Skill Tree instead?  Basically they have to pick and choose which path they want to take.  This will help to diversify and personalize people's skill sets.  If you really wanted to make it personalized (and complicated), you can make it so that they can only see the very next level of accessible skills instead of the whole skill tree.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Glitch on December 03, 2010, 01:22:58 pm
Perhaps EXP allows you to overcome certain deck restrictions.  At first level you can only have 4 of a card in your deck and you must have a 30 card deck.  Maybe.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Dragoon1140 on December 03, 2010, 04:14:56 pm
Perhaps leveling should be the way that players can use upgraded cards in the game?  Skills are great, and sound amazingly fun, but everything should be deeply explained to the players to prevent any sort of confusion if we have a set of skills like the ones posted.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 03, 2010, 04:30:56 pm
How about the ability to trade in reputation (to a minimum of 0) with an npc somewhere to gain skills? In theory this could mean that the most dedicated players can get skills from other elements, whilst given the slow gain of reputation the skill gain won't unbalance the game for older players compared to newbies. Most reputation gain is with your own element but you can in theory try to grind other elements. Also it would mean you'd have to choose your attacks carefully because it'd be quite easy to lose rep for other elements.
I don't know.. using reputation as kind of currency sounds weird to me. It would go like this:

I am liked in some part of the world. I go to that part of the world and "trade" them liking me, to them teaching me how to become a hunter? And after they have taught me that skill, they forget they like me?

Makes no sense to me.

Also I don't think there should be a connection between reputation and your skill level. In real life you can be highly skilled without anyone knowing that you event exist.


I love the idea of XP and skills!  It may add more complication but it adds more depth to the game I think.  Also, instead of a linear upgrade path, what about a Skill Tree instead?  Basically they have to pick and choose which path they want to take.  This will help to diversify and personalize people's skill sets.  If you really wanted to make it personalized (and complicated), you can make it so that they can only see the very next level of accessible skills instead of the whole skill tree.
Skill tree would be pretty good, but it might make things a lot more complex. Then again it depends a lot on what kind on skill tree we would use.


Perhaps EXP allows you to overcome certain deck restrictions.  At first level you can only have 4 of a card in your deck and you must have a 30 card deck.  Maybe.
That is a possibility, yes.


Perhaps leveling should be the way that players can use upgraded cards in the game?  Skills are great, and sound amazingly fun, but everything should be deeply explained to the players to prevent any sort of confusion if we have a set of skills like the ones posted.
I personally think that the most logical and simple way to upgrade cards is:

1. Buy an unupped card
2. Upgrade the card in a specific place

This is how it works in the game as well. Mixing skills and upgrades might be a bit complex.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Dragoon1140 on December 03, 2010, 06:00:22 pm
Well since we still need to put names to use, I might as well put my twist on it.


 :aether
Evasion - Cannot be attacked for X turns.
Ride a Lightning - Teleport directly to the Aether capital.
 :air
Ambush - Aggressive Stance does not cost any action points for X turns.
Mobility - One extra Action Point can be used for X turns or until the user is attacked.
 :darkness
Stealth - One less Action Point can be used for X turns, but the user cannot be seen by other players.
 :death
Cause Fear - All players sharing a Hex with the user run away in fear to the Hex nearest to their capital.
March - The Hex that the user is standing on will now permanently produce X more resources.
Undead - Target Death player sharing the same Hex as the user permanently gains one random Death creature in their vault.
 :earth
Escape - The user jumps two Hexes to the Earth capital.
Toughness - For X turns, it takes twice as many Action Points to attack the user.
Digging - The user has a random chance to dig up a card, even rare ones!
 :entropy
Diversion - All non-Entropy players sharing the same Hex do a random action this turn.
 :fire
Destroy - The hex that the user is on will no longer produce resources for X turns.
Bombardment - The user can attack a target player from two hexes away.
 :gravity
Improved Siege - Sieges are now X turns faster.
Machinery - All fast travel is instant for the user for X turns.
Repair - Target Gravity player sharing the same hex as the user permanently gains one random Gravity creature.
 :life
Hunter - The user gains a random creature of the element that owns the hex Hunter is used on.
Shaman - The next player to attack the user cannot use Life creatures.
Scouting - The user can see the deck of the target player up to 3 hexes away.
 :light
Heal - Strengthen an NPC deck sharing the same hex as the user.
Crusade - All Light players gain X reputation with the target element.
Improved Resurrection - Target a Light player.  If that player dies, no cards are lost, but they lose all Electrum they are holding.
 :time
Trading - For X turns, all NPC's dealing with the user now consider the user to have 75+ Reputation.
Science - A random Time creature the user owns transforms, randomly, into a Pharaoh or Eternity.
 :water
Waterbreathing - The user now has two extra Action Points on all water tiles.
 :underworld
Smuggler - The next NPC the user deals with now offers all creature cards from a random element to the user.
Dirty Fighting - The next player the user duels cannot X upgraded cards.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: TimerClock14 on December 03, 2010, 08:06:11 pm
off the top of my head i can get one for gravity:
:gravity Strong Force: any non-gravity player in the same hex becomes immoble for X amount of turns.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Kamietsu on December 06, 2010, 04:41:36 am
While i can see the benefit of going with skill trees, I find myself very much disliking them. I much prefer individual skills. Not only is it more simple, but if gives a wider scope available to all players. Players can choose to specialize in just a few areas, or have skills all over the spectrum to be a rounded off character, even though those skills would overall generally be weaker since they'd be at lower levels than those who went more specialized.

Such as:

Character A choses to only learn skills from earth and Life. They can max out those skills rather fast and be specialized in them.

Character B chooses to have a little of all skills, taking one skill from 8 different elements. They have a wider scope of abilities, but individually, they are all weaker.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 06, 2010, 04:43:08 am
Well since we still need to put names to use, I might as well put my twist on it.


 :aether
Evasion - Cannot be attacked for X turns.
Ride a Lightning - Teleport directly to the Aether capital.
 :air
Ambush - Aggressive Stance does not cost any action points for X turns.
Mobility - One extra Action Point can be used for X turns or until the user is attacked.
 :darkness
Stealth - One less Action Point can be used for X turns, but the user cannot be seen by other players.
 :death
Cause Fear - All players sharing a Hex with the user run away in fear to the Hex nearest to their capital.
March - The Hex that the user is standing on will now permanently produce X more resources.
Undead - Target Death player sharing the same Hex as the user permanently gains one random Death creature in their vault.
 :earth
Escape - The user jumps two Hexes to the Earth capital.
Toughness - For X turns, it takes twice as many Action Points to attack the user.
Digging - The user has a random chance to dig up a card, even rare ones!
 :entropy
Diversion - All non-Entropy players sharing the same Hex do a random action this turn.
 :fire
Destroy - The hex that the user is on will no longer produce resources for X turns.
Bombardment - The user can attack a target player from two hexes away.
 :gravity
Improved Siege - Sieges are now X turns faster.
Machinery - All fast travel is instant for the user for X turns.
Repair - Target Gravity player sharing the same hex as the user permanently gains one random Gravity creature.
 :life
Hunter - The user gains a random creature of the element that owns the hex Hunter is used on.
Shaman - The next player to attack the user cannot use Life creatures.
Scouting - The user can see the deck of the target player up to 3 hexes away.
 :light
Heal - Strengthen an NPC deck sharing the same hex as the user.
Crusade - All Light players gain X reputation with the target element.
Improved Resurrection - Target a Light player.  If that player dies, no cards are lost, but they lose all Electrum they are holding.
 :time
Trading - For X turns, all NPC's dealing with the user now consider the user to have 75+ Reputation.
Science - A random Time creature the user owns transforms, randomly, into a Pharaoh or Eternity.
 :water
Waterbreathing - The user now has two extra Action Points on all water tiles.
 :underworld
Smuggler - The next NPC the user deals with now offers all creature cards from a random element to the user.
Dirty Fighting - The next player the user duels cannot X upgraded cards.
Thanks, I'll use some of of those. Others are a bit different than what I had in mind, so I might not use them :)


off the top of my head i can get one for gravity:
:gravity Strong Force: any non-gravity player in the same hex becomes immoble for X amount of turns.
Sure, we could work with that.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 06, 2010, 05:19:57 am
While i can see the benefit of going with skill trees, I find myself very much disliking them. I much prefer individual skills. Not only is it more simple, but if gives a wider scope available to all players. Players can choose to specialize in just a few areas, or have skills all over the spectrum to be a rounded off character, even though those skills would overall generally be weaker since they'd be at lower levels than those who went more specialized.

Such as:

Character A choses to only learn skills from earth and Life. They can max out those skills rather fast and be specialized in them.

Character B chooses to have a little of all skills, taking one skill from 8 different elements. They have a wider scope of abilities, but individually, they are all weaker.
I think what you are talking about is not having a skill three where you mix different elements together. What I'm talking about is an individual  skill tree for each of the 12 elements.

Lets say :death has:

Cause Fear
March
Undead


We could build a :death skill tree where you could pick Cause Fear and March at level 1, but would need a specific number of points spent on :death skill tree before you gain access to Undead. This way in order to gain access to the most powerful skills, you need to specialize in :death.

What you say there would still apply, but we would have a skill tree.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Kamietsu on December 06, 2010, 05:28:18 am
While i can see the benefit of going with skill trees, I find myself very much disliking them. I much prefer individual skills. Not only is it more simple, but if gives a wider scope available to all players. Players can choose to specialize in just a few areas, or have skills all over the spectrum to be a rounded off character, even though those skills would overall generally be weaker since they'd be at lower levels than those who went more specialized.

Such as:

Character A choses to only learn skills from earth and Life. They can max out those skills rather fast and be specialized in them.

Character B chooses to have a little of all skills, taking one skill from 8 different elements. They have a wider scope of abilities, but individually, they are all weaker.
I think what you are talking about is not having a skill three where you mix different elements together. What I'm talking about is an individual  skill tree for each of the 12 elements.

Lets say :death has:

Cause Fear
March
Undead


We could build a :death skill tree where you could pick Cause Fear and March at level 1, but would need a specific number of points spent on :death skill tree before you gain access to Undead. This way in order to gain access to the most powerful skills, you need to specialize in :death.

What you say there would still apply, but we would have a skill tree.
Oh, ok. I see what you mean now. I guess I overcomplicated it in my mind. That wouldn't be a bad idea at all then, but it might makes things more complex, at least for the first WoE, unless skills don't get used in the first WoE at all.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: homoaddictus on December 06, 2010, 09:58:35 am
Skills should be categorized to passive skills and activated skills. Passive skills like terrain bonuses are automatic while activated skills should always require a cost (xp) to prevent abuse. Upgraded skills should also cost more to use. Players should only have 1 passive skill and can learn only up to 5 activated skills from a different element. After reaching their limits, if players ever want to change their skills, they can swap up to 3 skills at the cost of 1 player level.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 06, 2010, 10:01:50 am
I decided to go with skill trees. This topic have more info: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17109.0.html

Now all we need is 156 different skills*. No biggie :)



* well, some of them are identical
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: guitar101 on February 17, 2011, 04:41:04 am
i have an idea what if you get xp by defeting aponents and you can spend the xp on skills but the better the skill the more xp it costs.
Title: Re: Leveling up and skills?
Post by: Daxx on February 17, 2011, 08:09:20 pm
i have an idea what if you get xp by defeting aponents and you can spend the xp on skills but the better the skill the more xp it costs.
This is what already happens.
blarg: