Deckbuilding

[Scaredgirl]

Deckbuilding is the main thing in all Elements events, and WoE is no exception. We need to come up with deckbuilding rules for the event.


Here are some questions for you:

If I play , what kind of decks I can build?
Do I have to play mono?
Do I have to play  decks with 50%+ cards?
Can I use any mark?
Can I play any deck, but get a reputation penalty if I don't use enough ?
Can I play any deck, but some kind of other penalty if I don't use enough ?

What about players, can they use any decks?


There are some questions to get you started. Please post suggestions. Thanks.

[Shantu]

The War deckbuilding rules should apply here too, I think. Tweak it a little bit, but those are logical guildlines which should work here too.

[Malduk]

IMO:
- Players should NOT be forced to play mono. Some elements cant pull it off well.
- Any mark should be allowed. Its pretty important for deckbuilding.

I wouldnt put too many restrictions on deckbuilding. Players will have a tough time finding off-element cards anyway, so its likely to see decks based on their home element even with zero restrictions.
Now, do we want to allow well developed player to use say rush? I actually lean towards "why not". First loss will ruin his deck anyway, and he'll have to go take cards again, until he can afford to play whatever again. It could actually be quite funny to see how players develop their decks and their personal Vault.

Of course, limits on 50% from in element could be in place here too. Would be more thematic, and the only thing that worries me is players avoiding duels with elements they have a hard time against.

[Korugar]

Without knowing all the other possible deck rules, I'm not positive how to answer this, but here's my two cents anyway.

If a player can otherwise use upgraded cards, that should be the first penalty for not using cards/mark from their own element, though upgraded cards might not be used often enough for that to be practical. Otherwise, I think reputation is a good way to go. Make a certain percentage of cards "reputable", and anything above or below boosts or decreases your reputation. Despite the fact that many decks are best with only their mark of a different element, I think you should also get a penalty for using another element's mark. Maybe not if it's an ally(in future rounds, when we have alliances), but if it's otherwise.

[Scaredgirl]

IMO:
- Players should NOT be forced to play mono. Some elements cant pull it off well.
- Any mark should be allowed. Its pretty important for deckbuilding.

I wouldnt put too many restrictions on deckbuilding. Players will have a tough time finding off-element cards anyway, so its likely to see decks based on their home element even with zero restrictions.
Now, do we want to allow well developed player to use say rush? I actually lean towards "why not". First loss will ruin his deck anyway, and he'll have to go take cards again, until he can afford to play whatever again. It could actually be quite funny to see how players develop their decks and their personal Vault.

Of course, limits on 50% from in element could be in place here too. Would be more thematic, and the only thing that worries me is players avoiding duels with elements they have a hard time against.

This is more or less exactly how I feel about WoE deckbuilding. We should definitely give players as much freedom as possible, without killing the theme.

One thing that concerns me though.. if we have a high level rich player, he or she could potentially play anything BUT . This is a problem, because if we have a person with a "Champion of Life" title, one might think that the person actually uses light. If this person attacks with cards, I think that it would be kind of lame. And with tons of cash, a player could do this for the duration of the event, without playing a single card.

One thing (also mentioned in the first post) I thought might solve this problem is to have that player lose reputation when using a non deck. That would enable the player to use any deck out there, but doing so repeatedly, would make his own element not like him. Or do it the other way around. When a player wins with a deck of his or her element, that player gets reputation.

I don't know..


One previous idea suggested by someone a long time ago was that your mark would be determined by the area you are in. I absolutely LOVE this idea. It's like your mark is actually your physical surroundings. So if you attack area, you need to use a mark, giving players an advantage (in most of the cases at least).

However mark is such a big part of the deck that it won't work. Besides, would crush pretty fast with Graboids.

[Daxx]

I think I would prefer War deckbuilding rules - not less than 50% of your deck must be from your element.

As for Marks: I suggest that everyone starts with their element's mark. There is a quest or quest chain that when completed allows you to metamorphose as a reward (and may also involve reputation loss/gain for the relevant elements). This means that players have to think about changing their mark, because each change requires completing a quest and potentially losing favour with their Element.

[Scaredgirl]

I think I would prefer War deckbuilding rules - not less than 50% of your deck must be from your element.

As for Marks: I suggest that everyone starts with their element's mark. There is a quest or quest chain that when completed allows you to metamorphose as a reward (and may also involve reputation loss/gain for the relevant elements). This means that players have to think about changing their mark, because each change requires completing a quest and potentially losing favour with their Element.

I do like the idea of that kind of quest, but it would make obtaining new marks very difficult and time-consuming. It would be kind of a hassle if I wanted to build a specific kind of deck, but couldn't before I traveled to the other side of the map to do some quest. Keep in mind that things like travelling take TONS of time. Getting a new mark could take weeks, maybe even months.

What I had in mind was to just sell them at a relatively high price. When you buy a mark, you unlock it, after which it's yours for good and you can use it as much as you like. A very simple system.

One other option is to give players new marks based on level (just thought about this a second ago). For example, every two levels, you get one new mark.

level 1: 1 mark
level 2: 1 mark
level 3: 2 marks
level 4: 2 marks
level 5: 3 marks
level 6: 3 marks
etc.

[Glitch]

Heres an odd thought.

What if we treated cards like "moves" or skills the player had learned.  The player may take any number of a certain "move" in his deck once he's learned it.

For instance, as a reward for completing the "Spider-witch" quest, the player "learns" to use phase spiders and recluses.  At the start of the event you're stuck with mono, true, but you aren't restricted to a "vault" per-se.  Then, as the game progresses, you can learn moves from your enemies, and from quests, and slowly expand your knowledge of the game.  This could include pillars/pendulums/marks, or it might not.

The underworld is supposed to be a bunch of rebels, right?  So as part of their character, they technically are an elemental from one of the original 12 elements.  They'd get to pick which elemental they are and which "moves" they start with.

Of course, this completely wrecks a lot of earlier ideas.

[Wizardcat]

One other option is to give players new marks based on level (just thought about this a second ago). For example, every two levels, you get one new mark.

level 1: 1 mark
level 2: 1 mark
level 3: 2 marks
level 4: 2 marks
level 5: 3 marks
level 6: 3 marks
etc.

I really like this system. Not only is it very simple, but I think it's elegant, as well.

I also like the reputation changes for (not) using your element's cards. There could be a cutoff (say, 50%), where using less than that percentage of your element starts negative reputation with your element, and using more than a certain percentage (maybe 80% or 85%) nets you positive reputation with your element. If we want less restrictions, the negative reputation part could be dropped whilst still providing a reason to use your own element.

...Now just how the hell does such a thing work for Underworld? Possibly not at all.

[Malduk]

One thing that concerns me though.. if we have a high level rich player, he or she could potentially play anything BUT . This is a problem, because if we have a person with a "Champion of Life" title, one might think that the person actually uses light. If this person attacks with cards, I think that it would be kind of lame.

Upgrading skill tree would make his life decks better no? Meaning playing with cards from other elements would negate his skill level - which is penalty on its own. But, skill tree is still not defined, so we dont know if it would work that way yet.

I'm not in favor of War rules here. Not only because its repetitive, but also because elements ARE imbalanced, and IMO powerful player should be able to go wreck havoc in entropy or fire territory. Issue is that players dont start with huge Vault like in the war. They dont get to pull duo element to counter whatever comes in front of them, so elemental differences will be even more pronounced.

[Glitch]

One thing that concerns me though.. if we have a high level rich player, he or she could potentially play anything BUT . This is a problem, because if we have a person with a "Champion of Life" title, one might think that the person actually uses light. If this person attacks with cards, I think that it would be kind of lame.

Upgrading skill tree would make his life decks better no? Meaning playing with cards from other elements would negate his skill level - which is penalty on its own. But, skill tree is still not defined, so we dont know if it would work that way yet.

I'm not in favor of War rules here. Not only because its repetitive, but also because elements ARE imbalanced, and IMO powerful player should be able to go wreck havoc in entropy or fire territory. Issue is that players dont start with huge Vault like in the war. They dont get to pull duo element to counter whatever comes in front of them, so elemental differences will be even more pronounced.

Are we using a vault for WoE?  Is that concept set in stone?

[Dragoon]

I think he means vault in the sense of personal library of cards.

Also, with all this talk of different things affecting reputation, who exactly is keeping track of all that?  It seems like a lot of work for organizers if players aren'd doing it.