VAULT

[miniwally]

Do we all have enough squids to equal 24 I only have 4 I know that also I have 2 nymph queens

[RavingRabbid]

I have squids for everybody. >_>

[the dictator]

Do we all have enough squids to equal 24 I only have 4 I know that also I have 2 nymph queens

Well, most of the time you won't need more than four anyways, but it is mainly because squids are one of waters major cards, you will really need them. Last time we had 12, but in the first round we already used 14, which resulted in a penalty. I think that shows the importance of squids enough.

[nilsieboy]

i don't think we need 6 floodings...
first i think we won't use it and if we use it i don't think you need 6 of them...
i agree with the start point we need at least the most of toadfishes,crawlers (for essence to),dragons,chrya because they are main damage (i also think we won't need that much tridents)

[miniwally]

i don't think we need 6 floodings...
first i think we won't use it and if we use it i don't think you need 6 of them...
i agree with the start point we need at least the most of toadfishes,crawlers (for essence to),dragons,chrya because they are main damage (i also think we won't need that much tridents)

I think twelve of trident is a decent number because if we want to go for a denial deck which might be essential against some rush decks that other groups will use (fire, life etc.) and trident will be an effective way to counter forcing them to try something there element isn't as good as in the specific area.

[wavedash]

I have a single Nymph Queen. I doubt anyone will be using it, it's much too situational.

[Essence]

OK, we're going about this all wrong.

Trust me, last War, I did exactly what you're doing, and it didn't work.  Epic fail.


What we need to do is think from our opponent's perspectives, and counter the decks that they will build to counter Water.  For example, Water decks pack massive CC, so last War, we ended up fighting lots of Flying Glories, Shriekers, and other untargetable creatures.  Water decks tend to be attacker-light, so we ended up fighting decks that packed lots of CC. 

What we need to be doing is figuring out how to best abuse Pendulums and Marks to get decks that rely on Water to do cool tricks*, but use other Elements in unexpected ways to accomplish the goal of actually winning in a way that our enemies won't see coming. 

I'd start by looking at relatively inexpensive cards that are 'counter-counters' -- like Minor Phoenix countering the high-CC decks that we saw last War.  Then build decks around those cards and win conditions.

At least, that's what I'd do.  Miniwally, I respect your accomplishments last War and I'd like to hear more of your opinion on the matter.


*Keeping in mind that with Nymph's Tears, Water is THE element of unexpected cool tricks.

[nilsieboy]

OK, we're going about this all wrong.

Trust me, last War, I did exactly what you're doing, and it didn't work.  Epic fail.


What we need to do is think from our opponent's perspectives, and counter the decks that they will build to counter Water.  For example, Water decks pack massive CC, so last War, we ended up fighting lots of Flying Glories, Shriekers, and other untargetable creatures.  Water decks tend to be attacker-light, so we ended up fighting decks that packed lots of CC. 

What we need to be doing is figuring out how to best abuse Pendulums and Marks to get decks that rely on Water to do cool tricks*, but use other Elements in unexpected ways to accomplish the goal of actually winning in a way that our enemies won't see coming. 

I'd start by looking at relatively inexpensive cards that are 'counter-counters' -- like Minor Phoenix countering the high-CC decks that we saw last War.  Then build decks around those cards and win conditions.

At least, that's what I'd do.  Miniwally, I respect your accomplishments last War and I'd like to hear more of your opinion on the matter.


*Keeping in mind that with Nymph's Tears, Water is THE element of unexpected cool tricks.

maybe we should make another trhead just to make decks already (and maybe vs specefic elements)
on that way it's easier to choose the cards instead of spamming this vault trhead with decks

[wavedash]

Essence, that's a great idea and all, but we can't rely on predicting that our opponents will predict us to use whatever. Unless those "counter" decks perform just as well as a standard Water deck, I think we should still pack standard Water decks, too.

[Bluesky]

So, I just looked at the first war archive..

Well, yes, they think that water is Loaded with full of CC, build their damage slow(squids, flayer,chyrsaoras).

so, there are 3 options for the opponent :
Opponent use immortal creatures (glory)
Opponent use mass healing
Opponent use otk decks

how to solve:
1. Use CC-less deck, but build their damage dealers quick. <--- Problem is, sometimes, against another team, we really need the CC.
2. Ice shield
3. We use otk decks too, or by mass healing, something like ice bolt-miracle-ice shield, or stoneskin-icebolt-ice shield-and PA for the Ice shield? Perhaps.
Also, I don't think they will expect some trident, and earthquake. (Because trident is underpowered card???)

What card that I think is very important :
Dimensional Shield. I'm almost sure that every team will pack 6 of these...
So, we need a counter like PC for dims shields too.

And I don't think packing a lot of flooding is wise. You really only need 1-3 of them, also, I saw the other team threads(life) that they'll avoid using lot's of creatures against water, because of flooding..
I have 1 nymph queen, either, but I don't think it's gonna be necessary.

Well, since the other team may know that water lose early in war 1, because the enemy use Anti-CC decks. But, the problem is, they may think because of that, we will use less CC, and they MAY exploit/counter that. (<-- Psychology of human..) (May be confusing, because I don't know the correct wording)

[the dictator]

So, I just looked at the first war archive..

Well, yes, they think that water is Loaded with full of CC, build their damage slow(squids, flayer,chyrsaoras).

so, there are 3 options for the opponent :
Opponent use immortal creatures (glory)
Opponent use mass healing
Opponent use otk decks

how to solve:
1. Use CC-less deck, but build their damage dealers quick. <--- Problem is, sometimes, against another team, we really need the CC.
2. Ice shield
3. We use otk decks too, or by mass healing, something like ice bolt-miracle-ice shield, or stoneskin-icebolt-ice shield-and PA for the Ice shield? Perhaps.
Also, I don't think they will expect some trident, and earthquake. (Because trident is underpowered card???)

What card that I think is very important :
Dimensional Shield. I'm almost sure that every team will pack 6 of these...
So, we need a counter like PC for dims shields too.

And I don't think packing a lot of flooding is wise. You really only need 1-3 of them, also, I saw the other team threads(life) that they'll avoid using lot's of creatures against water, because of flooding..
I have 1 nymph queen, either, but I don't think it's gonna be necessary.

Well, since the other team may know that water lose early in war 1, because the enemy use Anti-CC decks. But, the problem is, they may think because of that, we will use less CC, and they MAY exploit/counter that. (<-- Psychology of human..) (May be confusing, because I don't know the correct wording)

I just created a new topic, where we can continue our discussion.

And dimension shield isn't a problem, it is countered by chrysoara's.

[miniwally]

OK, we're going about this all wrong.

Trust me, last War, I did exactly what you're doing, and it didn't work.  Epic fail.


What we need to do is think from our opponent's perspectives, and counter the decks that they will build to counter Water.  For example, Water decks pack massive CC, so last War, we ended up fighting lots of Flying Glories, Shriekers, and other untargetable creatures.  Water decks tend to be attacker-light, so we ended up fighting decks that packed lots of CC. 

I agree here completely, if your opponent knows what your going to use you're finished no matter what (unless if they've ran out of cards) this happened when we repeated using the same decks, the people we used them against just had a counter ready to beat the deck down, however I can see this problem being more severe for water cause they're more specifically built around certain tactics (CC) where as darkness is probably the most well-rounded decks you can go for so we could attack the opponent pretty much anyway you wanted.

What we need to be doing is figuring out how to best abuse Pendulums and Marks to get decks that rely on Water to do cool tricks*, but use other Elements in unexpected ways to accomplish the goal of actually winning in a way that our enemies won't see coming. 

I think pendalums would help in this war a lot especially against mindgate which I am worried about becoming a big problem so if we suspect the enemy of using mindgate's I'd suggest disregarding pillars full stop and just going full pendalums (however, there's a reason I asked not to be the deck-builder)

I'd start by looking at relatively inexpensive cards that are 'counter-counters' -- like Minor Phoenix countering the high-CC decks that we saw last War.  Then build decks around those cards and win conditions.

The inexpensive cards will be valuable if we're going for pendulums due to the half quanta we'd be generating and the counters-counters is valuable as long as we make sure the opponents don't catch on to what we're doing due to the counter-counters-counters situation

At least, that's what I'd do.  Miniwally, I respect your accomplishments last War and I'd like to hear more of your opinion on the matter.

Done, took me a while as I haven't had much time to reply. Darkness during the war had a terrible vault and made sure we died slowly but this was due to low pillar count and the new rule this war ensures this won't happen and if we had this last war I think we could've done a bit better.

I have no idea why this last quote is weird...