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Offline RulacMage11

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208787#msg1208787
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 09:35:08 pm »
Sanc Domin sounds good vs Dark. I'd use Grabbow for a different matchup, such as Gravy.
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208807#msg1208807
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 10:59:17 pm »
An idea for Sanc Domin to play against Darkness, Lt. or +2 upgrades:

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5l8 5l8 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5mq 5mq 5mq 7gk 7gr 7gr 7gr 7gr 7i6 7jo 7jo 7la 8pp
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 12:07:47 am by JonathanCrazyJ »
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208833#msg1208833
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2015, 01:42:45 am »
Looking back at all this, I can't really see anything too erroneous, but:

Regarding Aether:
[Obligatory "Use SoW Reflect" comment here. I know how annoying I get with this and how much I over-glorify that deck, but if we could make it work, it would be great. Shame I didn't fully understand tinkerer.]
Right, now we got that out of the way, I think that speedials works, but I question the upped arses. Not that they're bad, per se, but I think those upgrades could be better spent upgrading the water pends.

That sanc domin looks solid, but it's quite reliant on using the NT to kill the opponent. Whilst I'm uncomfortable but fine with four octopuses, darkness can easily splash in certain other elements should it not want to use Liquid Shadow to deal with our NT. If they're running a stall, we're going to get unintentionally hard countered, and I can see them doing that. Even their own domin could get quite mean if they're not too focused on devs.
I would add a 31st card. Just to deal with that domin. Just in case we both kill our means of offence, we stand a higher chance of decking them out.

Regarding light, I can't see them playing RoL/Hope. I can see them playing New Old Times (RoL/Hope with SoPa)... But no. If I was light, I'd...
I'd use Morning Light SoW. It bypasses pretty much everything we can throw at them, making our only options something like the speedial we're using against aether, or a pure rush, both of which are options I wouldn't consider throwing at other light decks.
Now, it can be argued that such a deck is too expensive, given Light's vault. But I highly see light running some form of uncounterability and/or shield bypass, and this is simply the best they could come up with. That, or psiontal.

There was something about being able to use two decks with dials, right? I wonder... The possibility of such a deck is really scaring me and I can't think of anything else they'll do. Sorry.

That just leaves gravity and air.
Against gravity, I'd pack a bit more CC than usual, hopefully of a more spell-based variety. Water can be known for having many creatures out, all of which can easily become oty fodder if we're not careful. That grabbow looks good should we fail that criteria, though.

Against air... Yeah. Use that water/air. I'd put in an NT or two though, just in case. The either/or aspect of using both is a little painful, but it can work as spot-pillar denial as well as prevent death by owl's eye.

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208851#msg1208851
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 06:47:16 am »
* Basman-1453 rubs his temples.

To think I can at least do Vange, then sneak repairs during Deckbuilding Two so that I'm available for Battle Two. orz

Looking back at all this, I can't really see anything too erroneous, but:

Regarding Aether:
[Obligatory "Use SoW Reflect" comment here. I know how annoying I get with this and how much I over-glorify that deck, but if we could make it work, it would be great. Shame I didn't fully understand tinkerer.]
And a shame I don't remember we packed Shards of Wisdom. Nonetheless, Mirror Shields can be a great option to troll the Psion-fest if we decide to pack 'em. It needs to be a Mirror Shield, though; Reflective Shields still hard-counters spell damage, but it does null against physical damage.

Right, now we got that out of the way, I think that speedials works, but I question the upped arses. Not that they're bad, per se, but I think those upgrades could be better spent upgrading the water pends.
Without recourse to shenanigans that involves Dim Shields, Wings, or delaying the weapon, the only way to reliably stop an upped Arsenic's damage (and thus its poison tag) is by a tall Hope (which may be dismantled if we have a form of mass CC in the deck) or Diss Field/Shield (which only likely user would be Team Entropy, especially Diss Shield). I think there are more than five shields capable of stopping unupped Arsenic's damage (and thus its poison tag), Wings and Dims included (but excluding 'unreliable' stuff like Hope, evasion shields, and Diss Field/Shield).

That sanc domin looks solid, but it's quite reliant on using the NT to kill the opponent. Whilst I'm uncomfortable but fine with four octopuses, darkness can easily splash in certain other elements should it not want to use Liquid Shadow to deal with our NT. If they're running a stall, we're going to get unintentionally hard countered, and I can see them doing that. Even their own domin could get quite mean if they're not too focused on devs.
I would add a 31st card. Just to deal with that domin. Just in case we both kill our means of offence, we stand a higher chance of decking them out.
Can say nothing but seconding that.

Regarding light, I can't see them playing RoL/Hope. I can see them playing New Old Times (RoL/Hope with SoPa)... But no. If I was light, I'd...
I'd use Morning Light SoW. It bypasses pretty much everything we can throw at them, making our only options something like the speedial we're using against aether, or a pure rush, both of which are options I wouldn't consider throwing at other light decks.
Now, it can be argued that such a deck is too expensive, given Light's vault. But I highly see light running some form of uncounterability and/or shield bypass, and this is simply the best they could come up with. That, or psiontal.
Welp. Lightning Blades is scary, I must agree. It's quite expensive, I must agree. (One animated, Wizened up Morning Star will cost 220 points. Multiply it by five or six and it's not that hard to see where it goes.) The problem with Lightning Blades, though, is that it has little space for sacrificial discards. I, instead, am wondering whether they have more business running Titans than just to run TitanSaders (which I doubt myself) if they're planning to bypass our shields.
Psiontal is easily outta the question for Light, methinks. -_-;


There was something about being able to use two decks with dials, right? I wonder... The possibility of such a deck is really scaring me and I can't think of anything else they'll do. Sorry.

That just leaves gravity and air.
Against gravity, I'd pack a bit more CC than usual, hopefully of a more spell-based variety. Water can be known for having many creatures out, all of which can easily become oty fodder if we're not careful. That grabbow looks good should we fail that criteria, though.
Well, if we aren't careful, Gravity has ways to nom our creatures (Otyughs ... whatever their plural form is) and out permanents (Shards of Focus). Too bad that if we run that Water/Air against Air, our only option of spell-based lethal CC would be Rage Potions (should we risk swapping Deflagration from the Grabbow for this?), Lightning/Shockwave (no idea how can we slip it in), or Ice Bolt (one shot isn't strong enough to take down even unupped Otyughs).

Against air... Yeah. Use that water/air. I'd put in an NT or two though, just in case. The either/or aspect of using both is a little painful, but it can work as spot-pillar denial as well as prevent death by owl's eye.
I'm not going to be tired to reiterate that I won't rely on using NT-related shenanigans as a form of pillar denial. :P
Actually, I'd rather run six Ice Dragons and invest ups on Lightning Storms instead. (Yes, call me a paranoid.)


« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 04:22:22 pm by Basman-1453 »
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Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208867#msg1208867
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2015, 11:29:16 am »
ok, some good thoughts there guys:

The PDials including Mirror Shield is the closest we can get to SoW Reflect, and I think that's ok. The issue I have with PDials as it currently stands is that it can suffer against Dim Chain, not being able to get through with arsenic. I'm actually wondering about swapping the arsenics for Upgraded poisons, and swapping one Crawler for a 6th chrys. Either way, it seems people think that that is the best option, so I will stand down from my opinion that Shipwrecker is a more complete deck vs aether.
Spoiler for My reasoning about Shipwrecker:
-The magnitude of creatures actually makes it really quite fast. If they run Psions, it has CC to slow that down until we get a pulvy for Dims, at which point it should be able to out-rush. In fact if they pack Dims at all I think Shipwrecker is the better option.
-It it also less vulnerable to lightning. If they pack 6 Lightning, our PDial chrys are all dead.
-The PDials is very taylored to be able to reflect, but I feel like it is either too slow, or doesn't have enough stall. There isn't really a fix to this in 50% format.

A stall is NOT a hardcounter against Nymph spam. Nymph Spam is actually a stall-breaker. High HP infinite creature creation. I do wonder about what you said about instant CC though, and swapping some Squids for some Congeals would a) guard against lots of CC killing Squids and b) allow more Water Quanta for Queens. 31 card option, but worried about not drawing a nymph.

Morning Star SoW is a possibility. But SoP vamps would stand a decent chance against that too, just because it isn't the quickest deck, and we'll be able to match it with Vampire Healing. I really can't see much they can do about SoP Vamps in fact, and I'm gonna push hard that this should be used here. We used it wrong in the last round against a "broad" element in Life. Light being a "Tall" element makes it a much more viable choice. Oh, and btw, their PSiontal is almost certainly dead. They had to discard 6 cards from it, and won't have packed replacements in vault I don't think.

There is no perfect deck against Gravy. They have ways to counter everything we can throw at them, so I like Spiels idea of Grabbow, as that is the hardest one to 'counter' per-se. we COULD pack a random SoP in grabbow though if people think that's a good option, to get things out of Oty range. We also do have 2 mind flayers and some congeals. I think this stands a decent shot at anything they can throw at us.

I have done a lot of testing with the Air deck, and as long as they don't run Chaos Psions, it's possible. It also doesn't need the Lightning Storms upgraded, there's plenty of time in which to use the storms. The Dragons DO need upgrading, because a) damage potential and b) that way they can get through both wings AND gravy shield. I do, however, like the idea of swapping one or two of the unupped dragons for NTs, that's a nice catch.
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208868#msg1208868
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2015, 11:55:14 am »
Personally I think we should use a more control-oriented version of our grabbow against Gravy. Attempt to shut down SoFo and Otys as much as possible.

Agreed with the suggested changes of NT in the SoFr counter, +cards to the sanc domin, and poisons in PDials...although I'm wondering if Shipwrecker isn't the better option after all.

I'll add more when I wake up and then compile suggestions as I did last round. This round appears to be more straightforward with our discussion, though.
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208889#msg1208889
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2015, 04:03:18 pm »
ok tested a bit the unupped dragon vs nt in airdeck... looks very good! would change one! sad we cant use towers... airquanta is a bit to much, but guess its needed. ^^
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208933#msg1208933
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2015, 08:17:55 pm »
Sanc Domin looks good, and I feel comfortable with the changes suggested. However, I only have 1 nymph queen   :-[
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208938#msg1208938
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2015, 08:45:40 pm »
No problem, we'll swap one out for a Tears.
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208982#msg1208982
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2015, 06:34:54 am »
Hey team, sorry I didn't get anything compiled today, I'm just exhausted and I think we're at a pretty good place right now. That being said discussion is always still welcome.

I'm gonna try to get a lot of sleep tonight but expect me on 3-5 hours before the deadline regardless and I'll be finalizing everything.
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208989#msg1208989
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2015, 07:46:45 am »
Aye, i'll hopefully be on 3 hours before deadline too
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Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59832.msg1208996#msg1208996
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2015, 11:06:19 am »
My fear with Grabbow Vs Gravity is Black hole. It's not the end of the world as I can save 2 novas to use at a time and get most thinks out at once, but it still gives them 12-24 healing, and slows things down. I still think its a good option, but wondered if anyone has other ideas. I think it very probable we'll see SoFo, just whether in Domin or Denial.

Vs Air: DesicationStorm -2 unupped dragons +2 NT, +2 Salvage, +2 Upgrades from -1 Salvage EC.
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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5oh 5oh 5oh 5oh 7gt 7gt 7gt 7gt 7h3 7h3 7h3 7h3 7h3 8pr




Vs Darkness: SancNymph -1/2 Squid, +2/3 Congeal, Lieutenant
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5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5mq 5mq 5mq 7gk 7gn 7gn 7gr 7gr 7gr 7i6 7jo 7la 8pp




Vs Aether: Still undecided between Shipwrecker and PDials
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55r 596 596 596 596 596 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ib 5ib 5j2 5j2 5j2 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77f 77f 77f 7gr 7gr 7gr 8pl




Vs Light: SoP Vamps(?) I suggest:
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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5j2 5j2 5j2 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5up 5up 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 7gr 7gr 7gr 7gr 7t9 7tb 7tb 8pt

Can't see much of a reason to cloak. Extra steal for fun things. Should be balanced. Suggest -2 Discard Boost.



Vs Gravity: Grabbow(?) Extra Upgrades, still needs some attention. I do wonder about a CC heavy Air Stall though.
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4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 595 5c1 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ie 5ie 5if 71a 7dm 7gm 7gm 7gn 7gn 7k6 7n7 80a 8pm

Mercenary, and +2 upgrades from event card. Tested and built with DD, lots of CC and ways of dealing with SoFo. Should be balanced.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 08:56:38 pm by JonathanCrazyJ »
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