Pre-War: Deck Brainstorming

[Spielkind]

For that nice fastbow: how about 4 crawler but Explosion instead of deflag. Guess we can think in opponents to add a toad, purify or such things. But deflag i dont like in my water decks... ;-)

[rob77dp]

For that nice fastbow: how about 4 crawler but Explosion instead of deflag. Guess we can think in opponents to add a toad, purify or such things. But deflag i dont like in my water decks... ;-)

How about -1 LS +1 Gavel (earth mark = 7 damage for 2 )?  Also, -1 Deflag +1 Explosion and [edit 1]-1 Crawler +1 ToadfishMind Flayer seems appropriate...


RE: Controlling Swallow-variant... Lt and Gen make it much stronger as the speed improves with some upgraded quanta sources, in my opinion.  Otherwise, it is capable of wrecking opposing grabbows.

[treebeard xiii]

I guess i'd better put in my thoughts mine are more focussed on elemental counters so what they need is picking the most all round ones.

My thoughts are this
for light/earth most of their deks would be countered by a dessi/gravy shield rush or stall you pick, dessi would kill rol/hope or golemtal and gravy blocks out a majority of their rushes and gives protection against rol/hope late bursts. however any version thereof of immortal would simply shut it down

aether I'd actually go for some stall maybe dark/water siphonary (i believe the name is) with squidmare mixed in.

entropy I'm finding difficult to account for but

dark maybe a sanc rush rather than a sanc stall. grabbow or poison doesn't work against them at least it never did last war

I have to disagree with the catatitans it never worked last war had it for one round and lost with it immediately

gravity our best bet is to outrush it i'd say we're faster toad as the rush not nymphs and abyss gravy shuts it down completely

ofc the mandatory grabbow or soara bow but not both immediately

for the poison stallbreak I'd downgrade the soaras and upgrade the toads

I would swear by a water snovabow but that is personal preference

pugons hmm perhaps but no other aether duo works for water. Crawlertal/toadtal is a tad slow

don't like soara dials personally to sluggish a bow in my opinion and to vulnerable to bad draws

as for the airstall as a full stall I don't fancy its chances if it was a stall rush maybe.

now back to my personal fancies for elemental matchups

life is a partial threat if they bring excessively fast rushes but really a simple permafrost using deck should shut it down fairly efficiently

fire we'd have to stall out their cc would overwhelm most of our rushes could bring dessis as it handles most of their creatures

time is a tricky one but would go for a pugon otk or any other otk for that matter

and air is an interesting one but personally i'd go for adrena puffers with jade.

but as i said this are personal opinions take what you will from them.

ok sorry bout this post is a bit scatterdash will readjust it when i have more time to make it more readable.

[rob77dp]

I guess i'd better put in my thoughts mine are more focussed on elemental counters so what they need is picking the most all round ones.

My thoughts are this

for light/earth most of their deks would be countered by a dessi/gravy shield rush or stall you pick, dessi would kill rol/hope or golemtal and gravy blocks out a majority of their rushes and gives protection against rol/hope late bursts. however any version thereof of immortal would simply shut it down
This description is fit almost perfectly by Legit's water/gravy duo, above!

aether I'd actually go for some stall maybe dark/water siphonary (i believe the name is) with squidmare mixed in.
A water/light with reflects (as discussed/mentioned in above posts?) could do wonders against Aether.  Charger-tal from aether would spell trouble, though.

entropy I'm finding difficult to account for but
Unless we expect to face a BH deck from Entropy, then a nice Grabbow is likely a good candidate against them.

dark maybe a sanc rush rather than a sanc stall. grabbow or poison doesn't work against them at least it never did last war

I have to disagree with the catatitans it never worked last war had it for one round and lost with it immediately

gravity our best bet is to outrush it i'd say we're faster toad as the rush not nymphs and abyss gravy shuts it down completely

ofc the mandatory grabbow or soara bow but not both immediately

for the poison stallbreak I'd downgrade the soaras and upgrade the toads

I would swear by a water snovabow but that is personal preference

pugons hmm perhaps but no other aether duo works for water. Crawlertal/toadtal is a tad slow

don't like soara dials personally to sluggish a bow in my opinion and to vulnerable to bad draws

as for the airstall as a full stall I don't fancy its chances if it was a stall rush maybe.

now back to my personal fancies for elemental matchups

life is a partial threat if they bring excessively fast rushes but really a simple permafrost using deck should shut it down fairly efficiently

Adrena-Titans can be very fast.  Pre-War#6 Round 1, on Team Death, we did the "shields destroy Life... moving on" passive planning thing and got burned by a well-built Adrena-Titans.  However, that seems unlikely to occur if we have a Round 1 match vs. Life (it would be more likely applied to any Aether, Death, or Air matchup Life might have that round...)

Spoiler for I threw together an initial thing like this...:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5i7 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gp 7gp 7gp 8pp

Queen provides attack-boost in big way late game and toad/abyss is good atk-to-cost ratio for rushing a stall.  Several Freezes can be saved/used against "deal breaker" creatures (upped Oty? Maxwell's... etc)

I'm not convinced this is the answer, but it seems to meet what you were suggesting, tree.  Wings or Dims would be a disaster to face with this.

fire we'd have to stall out their cc would overwhelm most of our rushes could bring dessis as it handles most of their creatures

time is a tricky one but would go for a pugon otk or any other otk for that matter

and air is an interesting one but personally i'd go for adrena puffers with jade.
Something like this?

Spoiler for Like this...??:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c1 5c1 5c1 5c4 5c4 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gu 7gu 7gu 7gu 7gu 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 8pn

Without the General-upgrade quantity, it was very very slow in testing.  This version is quite quick but suffers tremendously against Dims (against RT you can just properly time spamming Adrenalines while letting regular-creature do their thing in the meantime as RT decks don't usually rush).

...maybe?

but as i said this are personal opinions take what you will from them.

ok sorry bout this post is a bit scatterdash will readjust it when i have more time to make it more readable.

Addressed above, in colors with more to come later, I hope

[Legit]

I also think we need an Entropy duo with discord and 5-6 Reverse Times/Lightning for splash.

FOR TESTING:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 590 590 590 590 590 590 593 593 5ia 61q 6u1 6u1 6u1 7dm 7dm 8pm

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f7 5f7 5f7 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7f2 7f2 8pq

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 4vp 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 52g 52o 52o 52r 52r 542 718 718 718 718 71a 71a 71a 71b 71b 8pk

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4su 4su 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 61o 61o 61q 61q 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 63a 63a 63a 63a 77g 77g 77g 7dm 7dm 7t9 8pm

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 5f6 5f7 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fk 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dk 7dn 7do 7do 7f2 7f2 8po

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5f6 5f6 5f6 5f6 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8po

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

58o 58o 58o 594 594 594 594 594 594 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5lg 5lg 5li 5li 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 77c 77c 77c 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

55k 55k 55k 55k 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 561 561 561 576 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oo 5oo 5oo 744 744 744 744 74b 74b 75m 75m 75m 8pr

[ddevans96]

Alright, now we have a lot of ideas to work with, good work guys. Now, we need to pare this down to the decks we're actually going to put in our vault. Gonna do it like this: Everyone make a list of 4-6 decks you want to see most in the vault, along with reasoning. They can either be decks already fleshed out in this thread, or decks barely mentioned, just as long as they're viable. From here, we'll cut down our choices to hopefully 20 or so decks, and then from there to the starting vault.

Also, about deck testing - I'm going to be open and say that while I know it is absolutely necessary, I despise doing it. That being said, I definitely will, for the good of the team, but the more you can test with each other/in trainer/however else, the better. This leaves me open to do things I'm really good with, primarily relating to keeping things in order (managing discussion, maintaining the vault and round assignments, dealing with WM communication, etc).

[rob77dp]

The deck I'd like to see considered for vault:

Spoiler for Deck #1:

Chrysa-dials

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5ib 5ib 5ib 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 71a 71a 71a 71b 71b 7ai 8pk

It _MAY_ simply be my love of Poison (I am a death-guy at the core) but this deck resonates with me.  I would not expect many opponents to specially plan PC against Water so Dials strike me as 'safe' stalling.  The +20 Heal is quite valuable during a Sundial turn and is worth several turns of weapon (not stopped by Dials) or Poison damage.

Spoiler for Deck #2:

PU-gons Dims 1x Fractal

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 7gt 7gt 7gt 7i6 7i6 7i6 8pu

I am also a sucker for a good Aether duo and this fits that bill.  We will want to avoid using it where lots of PC or momentum (Chargers, etc) are likely.  Otherwise, Dims can win matches all on their own.

Spoiler for Deck #3:

Water+Light Stall, Non-Aether Opponent

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5ia 5ia 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lh 5lh 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7gp 7gp 7gp 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq

A solid solid stall here.

Water+Light Stall, Aether Opponent

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5ia 5ia 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lg 5lg 5lg 5lh 5lh 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7h3 7h3 7h3 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq

Reflect > Psions
Desi > Fractal+small-critters
41 cards > typical-size War stalls
...

Spoiler for Deck #4:

Fast Grabbow

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 590 590 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ie 5ie 5if 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 6rl 7dm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 8pm

In testing, this was killing AI3's in 6 or 7 turns consistently, with one 5 TTW and a few 8 or 9 TTW (that Aether elder!!).  I enjoy a speedy Grabbow and it has uses in War.  This is the 2nd one shown by Legit - I like it... it's legit.

Spoiler for Deck #5:

Adrena+Puffers

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5c1 5c1 5c1 5c4 5c4 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gu 7gu 7gu 7gu 7gu 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 7i6 8pn

I enjoyed playing this some today and against things not-Dims it was very fast and quite solid.  For now, it feels a _bit_ gimmicky/situational though...  I still feel it deserves some testing so here it is, posted in my 5 decks. 

[treebeard xiii]

my top 5 would be

Spoiler for gravity duo:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

55l 55l 55l 55l 55p 55p 55p 55r 55r 5ig 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 8pl

Spoiler for trident bow:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 5c1 5f6 5i6 5i9 5i9 5ic 5ic 5ic 5id 5ie 5if 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 8pm

Spoiler for poison rush:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52q 52q 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gp 7gp 7gr 7gr 7gr 7gu 7gu 7gu 8pk

Spoiler for siphonary:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5ib 5ib 5ib 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5us 5us 5us 5us 5us 5v1 5v1 5v1 7gp 7gp 7tb 7tb 8pt

Spoiler for sancrush:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5id 5id 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ig 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7gp 7gp 7k1 7k1 7k2 7k2 8pq

I'd add in a mono or a different bow but the mono will come out of the vault anyway and the bows there are plenty of options

[Spielkind]

top5

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 5c1 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ia 5ib 5ib 5ib 5ie 5if 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5og 7dm 7gm 7gm 7gs 7gs 7gs 8pm

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 7gt 7gt 7gt 7i6 7i6 7i6 8pu

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5up 5up 5up 5v1 5v1 5v1 5v1 7gm 7gm 7gp 7gp 7tb 7tb 8pt

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i9 5i9 5i9 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5oh 5oh 5on 5on 5on 5on 5on 7gr 7gr 7gr 7n5 7n5 7n5 8pr

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4sp 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ia 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ig 5ig 5io 5io 5jm 6ts 6ve 6ve 8pj

[Legit]

I will add a fire duo similar to this:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gk 7h2 7h2 7h2 7h2 7h2 8po

And then +1:
- Rob's 3rd deck (Light stall)
- Rob's 4th deck (Fast Grabbow)
- Spielkind's 3rd deck (Toadmare)
- Spielkind's 4th deck (Air stall)
- Spielkind's 5th deck (Entropy duo)

I also want 6 Reverse Time and 6 Lightning in the vault.

ROUGH DRAFT OF FULL VAULT: (Obviously there will be changes)

Spoiler for Hidden:

OTHER (2)
1 Gavel
1 Long Sword

ENTROPY (21)
1 Entropy Pillar
2 Entropy Pendulum
1 Lychanthrope
9 Nova
8 Discord

DEATH (16)
6 Poison
6 Arsenic
4 Bonewall

GRAVITY (20)
3 Gravity Pillar
3 Gravity Shield
4 Otyugh
5 Titan
2 Gravity Pull
3 Catapult

EARTH (9)
9 Graboid

LIFE (13)
3 Forest Spirit
2 Heal
2 Emerald Shield
2 Druidic Staff
4 Adrenaline

FIRE (14)
2 Burning Pillar
8 Deflagration
4 Rage Potion

WATER (230) [150 non-quanta]
40 Water Pillar
40 Water Pendulum
12 Chrysaora
24 Blue Crawler
8 Freeze
12 Ice Bolt
10 Ice Shield
9 Purify
12 Arctic Squid
6 Trident
15 Ice Dragon
18 Toadfish
4 Mind Flayer
15 Nymph's Tears
5 Steam Machine
6 Dry Spell
4 Nymph Queen

LIGHT (14)
3 Reflective Shield
2 Morningstar
3 Miracle
6 Sanctuary

AIR (21)
3 Fog Shield
2 Thunderstorm
3 Flying Weapon
3 Owl's Eye
5 Shockwave
5 Wings

TIME (10)
6 Reverse Time
4 Sundial

DARKNESS (9)
3 Steal
2 Vampire Stiletto
4 Nightmare

AETHER (26)
6 Lightning
5 Parallel Universe
9 Dimensional Shield
6 Fractal

TOTAL 405

[ddevans96]

Waiting for Mal's choices, and then I'll compile it so we can step back and look at progress so far.

Legit's rough draft vault looks pretty good, but that kind of thing is exactly why I made the deck layout - so we have a system to plug everything into, and make sure that 100% of what we need (decks, options for deck mods, quanta, etc) is in the vault. Before the final vault is added to the doc, we need to match it up to there. If the layout itself is missing something, we can modify that.

[Malignant]

Spoiler for Sanctuary rush/stall:

Sanctuary is too useful, and we have one of the best shield (Permafrost), effectively boosting their powers

And of course also giving us Reflective Shields (because we all hate Aether)

So the decks already posted by rob and tree:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5ia 5ia 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lh 5lh 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7gp 7gp 7gp 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5ia 5ia 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lg 5lg 5lg 5lh 5lh 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7h3 7h3 7h3 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5id 5id 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ig 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7gp 7gp 7k1 7k1 7k2 7k2 8pq

Spoiler for Steam Machine dudes:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gk 7h2 7h2 7h2 7h2 7h2 8po

Damage-CC-resistant, access to Deflagration

Legit's deck probably could use +1 Deflag though, not sure what to remove

Spoiler for PU-gons:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5i4 5i4 5i4 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 7gt 7gt 7gt 7i6 7i6 7i6 8pu

Rawr dragons. Also Aether. Aether OP

And the 5-HP counters whoever's crazy enough to run Gravity Shield :P

Spoiler for poison rush:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

52q 52q 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 5ig 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gp 7gp 7gr 7gr 7gr 7gu 7gu 7gu 8pk

Purify doesn't really do much against this deck, unless paired with CC/Lobo/whatever else

Either this or something with more Death cards should be fine

Could also run more Nymph's Tears if needed

Not really sure what else I prefer, maybe a Water/Air duo with Toadfishes :P

Also, vault could probably use a few Silences, counters Dim Shield chain and maybe other stuff