WAR - Suggestions and Feedback

[Scaredgirl]

Yes, xdude is correct. It should be capped at 30, otherwise it's unfair to player who want to play a larger deck. Besides, losing 30 cards is a big enough penalty. There's really no need to go past that.

I would even cap it at 24 cards so valuables can stil be salvaged in later rounds.

One important goal is to try to prevent a situation where last two teams fight for 5-6 rounds. This becomes boring really fast and people lose interest. This is why I think discarding 30 cards is a good option. It's only rounds 5 and up so a lot has happened before that.

[kev]

The round robin idea has some merit but needs to be tweaked.  What I'm about to propose brings answers to the following problems:

Strength of scheduleTeams eliminated too earlyTeams hamstrung by an early couple losses, and a snowball effectSuicide decks, and a snowball effect for winning teamsThe "Who's at fault" dilemma when it comes to schedulingIt's simpler

Timeline: Before the War starts, teams of FIVE players are given time to build their vault of 180 cards including pillars.  Max 12 cards for your element, 6 for others.

Scheduling each round (2 days): Each round, all five players of one element will play against the same element.  Assignment of who plays who will be done randomly.

Warmaster will post the following template the last day of each round:

	Friday 6/25	Saturday 6/26	Sunday 6/27
Player 1 :Aether
Player 2 :Aether
Player 3 :Aether
Player 4 :Aether
Player 5 :Aether
Player 1 :Air
Player 2 :Air
Player 3 :Air
Player 4 :Air
Player 5 :Air

Someone from each team will have that day as well as the deckbuilding day to edit the table and publicly find a specific time to meet up with your opponent.

Deckbuilding (1 day): With five players, a smaller vault, and changed win/loss consequences (see below), we should be able to have decks posted to private forums in one day.

Play (3 days): Master gets six upped cards when not subbing.  Other players never use upped cards.  Winners salvage six cards.  Losers do not lose cards.

Using the above schedule, it should be easier to meet for a best-of-three match.  Subs can't salvage cards.

After play, winner posts the outcome but not decks or descriptions.

Penalties: Warmaster will check each deck posted on the private forums during the three days of matches.  Any illegal deck results in that deck losing.
A 6-card penalty will be enforced for any of the following:

Failing to update the availability schedule in timeFailing to deckbuild in timeUsing an illegal deck (in addition to automatic loss)

Additionally, since we are not posting decks after playing, players are encouraged to PM Warmaster, telling him about opponents deck.  Warmaster checks this against opponent's vault and if a discrepency can be corroborated that Team is disqualified from the War.

Playoffs: If Aether wins the majority of games against Air, they receive one point.  At the end of play, each team will have a maximum of 11 points.  If the four best teams tied at 8-3, these four teams play each other.  For seeding purposes, number of cards will be used (180 + (game wins - penalties) * 6).

This makes the War 11*4 days, plus time for extensions, initial deckbuilding, and playoffs if necessary.

[Anothebrother]

The round robin idea has some merit but needs to be tweaked.  What I'm about to propose brings answers to the following problems:

Strength of scheduleTeams eliminated too earlyTeams hamstrung by an early couple losses, and a snowball effectSuicide decks, and a snowball effect for winning teamsThe "Who's at fault" dilemma when it comes to schedulingIt's simpler

Timeline: Before the War starts, teams of FIVE players are given time to build their vault of 180 cards including pillars.  Max 12 cards for your element, 6 for others.

Scheduling each round (2 days): Each round, all five players of one element will play against the same element.  Assignment of who plays who will be done randomly.

Warmaster will post the following template the last day of each round:

	Friday 6/25	Saturday 6/26	Sunday 6/27
Player 1 :Aether
Player 2 :Aether
Player 3 :Aether
Player 4 :Aether
Player 5 :Aether
Player 1 :Air
Player 2 :Air
Player 3 :Air
Player 4 :Air
Player 5 :Air

Someone from each team will have that day as well as the deckbuilding day to edit the table and publicly find a specific time to meet up with your opponent.

Deckbuilding (1 day): With five players, a smaller vault, and changed win/loss consequences (see below), we should be able to have decks posted to private forums in one day.

Play (3 days): Master gets six upped cards when not subbing.  Other players never use upped cards.  Winners salvage six cards.  Losers do not lose cards.

Using the above schedule, it should be easier to meet for a best-of-three match.  Subs can't salvage cards.

After play, winner posts the outcome but not decks or descriptions.

Penalties: Warmaster will check each deck posted on the private forums during the three days of matches.  Any illegal deck results in that deck losing.
A 6-card penalty will be enforced for any of the following:

Failing to update the availability schedule in timeFailing to deckbuild in timeUsing an illegal deck (in addition to automatic loss)

Additionally, since we are not posting decks after playing, players are encouraged to PM Warmaster, telling him about opponents deck.  Warmaster checks this against opponent's vault and if a discrepency can be corroborated that Team is disqualified from the War.

Playoffs: If Aether wins the majority of games against Air, they receive one point.  At the end of play, each team will have a maximum of 11 points.  If the four best teams tied at 8-3, these four teams play each other.  For seeding purposes, number of cards will be used (180 + (game wins - penalties) * 6).

This makes the War 11*4 days, plus time for extensions, initial deckbuilding, and playoffs if necessary.

I actually reallylike this idea and would rather see an event like this than thte previous war...however, if we do something like this I'm not sure we could call it war since teh idea of war is tokill other elements and wars are never really like round-robins... Also, I like how you always play one elemnet all at once so there's no real advantage/disadvantage in "draws" of matches (since they dont exist really_ ...i also like the no losing cards thing so we can see good decks all the time and no suicide decks...i do see a problem though with the "pm the war master info about your opponents deck" thing...as that'd create a lot of trouble for the warmaster and still illegal decks could be used

[kev]

Thanks for the feedback!

Also, I like how you always play one elemnet all at once so there's no real advantage/disadvantage in "draws" of matches (since they dont exist really_

Yeah, there's more benefits than I really mentioned.  I feel like this would help team cohesiveness and also may make scheduling easier.

i do see a problem though with the "pm the war master info about your opponents deck" thing...as that'd create a lot of trouble for the warmaster and still illegal decks could be used

The Warmaster will check the decks posted in each section and will rule decks illegal with no need to PM.

PMing the Warmaster really only needs to be done to prevent teams from saying they'll play one deck and then playing something different (i.e. intentionally cheating).  My hope is that the fear of getting caught and disqualifying your entire Team from the War will help the ethically challenged.

[Scaredgirl]

Like I said in chat, I like some of those ideas but i would prefer making the current system work, rather then starting all over again.

That doesn't of course stop us from using that kind of round-robin in some other event. So if you are interested in further developing this event idea of yours, please do so. Maybe we can make it one of our reoccurring events.


Most of the problems we've had during War #1 were expected because this is the first time we are running it. Also most of them can be fixed, and have already been fixed (War #2 discussions).

[syco666]

i came across in one of the forums where next war where going to keep the vault up so u can seat as many pplz as possible each round, tossing out other elements for elements of their type when needed

i think this should be done where that when a player discards 30 cards, all cards from their elements should go into the void >>a separate vault<< and when a situation is that they have 30 cards from their element and 100 of another, they can sacrifice cards not of their element to the void, to pull out a previously discarded card. i say this because if they could swap it out for ANY card from their element, that would add a level of versatility that would make guessing ur opponents next move impossible and make choosing ur original vault unimportant.

i say this not knowing how the rules for it is already stated >>i cant wade through all those forum posts lookin for the convo on it<<

[Antagon]

maybe change the rules (where you have to play with 6 players if you have 90 cards of your element) to something like you can build decks you want but have to play at least one player more, if after deckbuilding still more than 15 element-cards (and 15 of others) in vault.

for example, i now have 90 fire cards in vault (and 90 other), i dont have to make 6 15/15 decks, it is right now, i could play only 3 full fire decks (but have to announce that in time, so not after i see the opponents, so i have a disadvantage at deckbuilding) AND if i lose, i lose a bunch of my cards, BUT im not forced to build dual-decks (15/15) and could "stand" with my decks.

that would be great.


*edit*: correct me if im wrong, but current state is, that you have to make decks, if you are able to, so forced to 15/15 decks, if possible.

[Scaredgirl]

War #2 will have card converting. This means that teams can convert any card that is not of their element, into a card that is.

Because there is conversion, how many players play is determined simply by the total number of cards in the Vault. What the cards are is irrelevant because you can always convert them if needed.

less than 30 cards = elimination
30-59 = 1 Player
60-89 = 2 Players
90-119 = 3 Players
120-149 = 4 Players
150-179 = 5 Players
180+ = 6 Players

This is a perfect system really. It's simple and it gets the job done.

[Flare]

So wouldn't it be wise to just take no pillars in your vault so then after you find out your first round opponents you could just convert the cards you don't need into pillars?

Edit: all right. So now with that being said can this conversion happen after you find out your opponents? If so then let's say I'm on team entropy. And we choose to have no entropy cards. Then we can just convert cards from a different element into some entropy cards depending on what we needed. Right?

[Scaredgirl]

So wouldn't it be wise to just take no pillars in your vault so then after you find out your first round opponents you could just convert the cards you don't need into pillars?

This means that teams can convert any card that is not of their element, into a card that is.

[syco666]

So wouldn't it be wise to just take no pillars in your vault so then after you find out your first round opponents you could just convert the cards you don't need into pillars?

Edit: all right. So now with that being said can this conversion happen after you find out your opponents? If so then let's say I'm on team entropy. And we choose to have no entropy cards. Then we can just convert cards from a different element into some entropy cards depending on what we needed. Right?

about the pillars, u can only >>presumably<< turn cards into purple pillars

about the cards ur vault HAS to start with atlest 50% purple cards >>i say purple cuz i hate the word entropy, to hard to type<<

about the whole system, i think u should only beable to convert to cards u PREVIOUSLY had, that way u cant just put 50% fire pillars and key cards, then when u get ur match ups pull out the fine touches that u need to win that round with, also i believe u shouldnt beable to convert untill ur unable to seat the correct amount of players for how many cards u have. being able to change any none ur element into any of ur element, kinda over powers it, imo, also im asuming u cant change it into a card u have that would put ur vault over the limit of how many of that card u can have in ur vault >>not including salvaging of corse<<

i believe my earlier  post about it would make it the most fair, and keep pplz from being able to take massive advantage of it

[Demagog]

With Salvaging in W2, how about making it proportional to the amount of cards in the deck you are salvaging from? This will serve as a deterrent from teams making huge suicide decks so they can control their vault easily. One fifth of the total amount of cards in the deck sounds right.