War #3 - Feedback

[Sevs]

 I think it's not time to make an official one that is perfect and that all teams can use.

Most important part of the new Vault will be that it can be used to build the decks as well. Teams can all open Google Docs, use the chat provided, and collaboratively build all the decks in real time. While they use up certain cards, their Vault diminishes, so using extra cards is impossible. When all decks are built, the spreadsheets even gives the code that players post on their secret forums. This would make deckbuilding in War 10 times easier and more fun.

@Sevs: if you have something good, please post it and we'll have a look.

i think that is a typo

i post it as soon as i delete our current vault from it

>>Link<< (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=tyqZEqJjH71u03H3qFDbQEw&authkey=CPn2oBA#gid=10)

[Higurashi]

She has a knack for making opportune typos. Automated vaults for all would really make this more smooth and fun :>
We have a deck tracker that does basically this.

[suxerz]

I actually prefer to have a separate tools rather than an automated vault. These are few reasons that I can think now:

Automated usually involves complicated formulas and Googlesheet is not really an efficient application.Automated vault means mandatory. It may or may not have all the vault-related-ability that need. So, why should I have to use a lesser system when I have the option to use a better system that I made myself. Of course I'm sure we can build a very efficient sheet, but I just prefer that we have the "option".

This may not be relevant, but I just wanted to say this again.  A summary of what I said before (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23298.msg365893#msg365893);

This is just my personal opinion; but it seems that if tools were given to every team, people like myself (who sux at PvP, deckbuilding, testing and everything else) has no asset left to secure a place in the war bidding (that is assuming there are other people as worthless as myself >.<). Aside being selfish, I do agree that "card losses are preferable on the battlefield as opposed to on the ledger books".

But then again, I guess I need to to stop being selfish. 

[Sevs]

I actually prefer to have a separate tools rather than an automated vault. These are few reasons that I can think now:

Automated usually involves complicated formulas and Googlesheet is not really an efficient application.Automated vault means mandatory. It may or may not have all the vault-related-ability that need. So, why should I have to use a lesser system when I have the option to use a better system that I made myself. Of course I'm sure we can build a very efficient sheet, but I just prefer that we have the "option".

This may not be relevant, but I just wanted to say this again.  A summary of what I said before (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23298.msg365893#msg365893);

This is just my personal opinion; but it seems that if tools were given to every team, people like myself (who sux at PvP, deckbuilding, testing and everything else) has no asset left to secure a place in the war bidding (that is assuming there are other people as worthless as myself >.<). Aside being selfish, I do agree that "card losses are preferable on the battlefield as opposed to on the ledger books".

But then again, I guess I need to to stop being selfish. 

I agree there shouldn't be a mandatory vault managing system but i think the tools should be widely available.

[RootRanger]

Ok, Entropy has a good chance to win this War too now. This had me thinking for a while, actually, because even if Aether and Water rocked this War, at the bitter end it was the same old decks - hence the same old elements - to have the upper hand. Fire, Entropy... there is a reason for people calling them unbalanced. I'm starting to believe it's true.

Hence, the idea: how can we make sure other elements have an even (or at least slightly greater) chance? By adding more upgrades.
The execution is simple: get rid of most team roles as Vault is being automatized (and I believe it will be, because it's just a strictly better solution), get rid of Vault Editor, Salvager etc. Reduce the roles to General, Lieutenant, Strategist, Organizer, Soldier, Soldier, Soldier, Soldier. Increase the number of upgrades in the event allowing Soldiers to use 3 upgrades, Lieutenant to use 6 and General to use 9.

Why? Because allowing for a greater variety of decks will probably benefit some teams, because upgrades are something that really change your deckbuilding possibilities and because I think it would be more intresting and fun. As for people needing to HAVE upgrades, well, most members of this community have a decent FG grinder - any FG grinder really - and we all know that upping 3 cards is an hour's work, tops. If you need 3 upgrades every week and can't farm that much, you're probably not playing Elements at all...

We are a growing community, and this is the most elitist event. I think increasing the number of upgrades, although slightly, could potentially change the face of the whole event, increasing the chances of different teams and producing more intresting and balanced Wars.

I agree.
There are definitely enough players that can upgrade 3 cards a week. I also feel that it will balance the teams that have been below average in the last war.
Gravity becomes significantly stronger upgraded. Sapphire Charger gains +3 attack for no increased cost, which makes it improve more than almost every other card when upgraded. Otyugh and Graviton Mercenary also get a lot better upgraded, and their strength increases more than most cards. Life has Frogs gain 2 attack for no extra cost, which is a huge boost for something that can be fractaled or Mitosised. Water gains a cheap mid-ranged attacker, abyss crawler. Ice Shield ups to Permafrost, which is one of the best shields around. Light also gains a mid-ranged attacker and the cost of Miracle decreases by 3, which is a larger decrease than any other card that has its cost decrease when it upgrades (not counting Phoenix and Abomination, which loose stats).

Every element becomes stronger when it upgrades, but the Elements that did not do well this war improve more than the other Elements. Adding more upgrades into war will balance the teams, and the players can afford the extra upgrades. It also encourages creative and new decks not seen before.

[TStar]

I think over the last 5 rounds the Event Cards have seemingly evened out somewhat.  Some of the earlier ones definitely worked against Aether while this one definitely helped them.  The only real concern is how Event Cards can seem to have such a big impact of the balance of power.  Since you can't really plan for them ahead of time you just hope you get one that doesn't really screw you up.  Especially this late in War it's impossible to plan a Vault for being able to adapt much to a bad Event Card.  If your last deck depends heavily a card or card type that is banned for example you've basically lost your chance to field your best deck in crunch time.  Entropy really got hurt badly by not being able to use weapons.  Imagine if Aether's last deck was a bonebolt and the event card banned Shields.  What if Fire's final deck was a stall and the event card banned CC and bolts?  Maybe you can adapt to those things in the first couple rounds and a successful team will still have a vault to adapt possibly in the middle rounds, but in the late round you really have no choice but to play your final deck and hope for the best and hope for an event card that doesn't take the bite out of it.  I just feel it's kind of anticlimactic to see Entropy having to go from 2 competitive decks to fielding a suicide and a very weakened deck all because of the event card.

[Zeru]

As I said in one of the battle threads, in a situation where multiple teams are left with a single deck, any event card can sway the odds to another team. I think that we won't have another War as close as this one. To avoid imbalance, you would have to make event cards with almost no power at all and that would be, in my opinion, very boring.

[the dictator]

Or you could make those event cards (deck restricting ones) optional (playing a mono gives 6 extra salvage, weaponless decks have less discarding, shields are free from discarding (/me packs a deck with 30 shields), etc.)

[The_Mormegil]

Or you could make those event cards (deck restricting ones) optional (playing a mono gives 6 extra salvage, weaponless decks have less discarding, shields are free from discarding (/me packs a deck with 30 shields), etc.)

Giving a restriction to some or a bonus to the others is effectively almost the same thing. They are still not balanced: they are just less blatantly so. The problem is in the fact that Vault isn't flexible, hence Event Cards will always benefit one team more than the other.