War - Rules

[Scaredgirl]

Is overtime in effect?

Yes.

[brettbstock]

Before the event starts, Rookies are required to send 2 screenshots to Warmasters, showing their Elements the game "Main" page and "My Deck" page, proving that they meet the requirements. Using alt accounts, or any kind of similar cheating, will lead to the whole team being disqualified.

When do we send this in, anytime before the war? Or after bidding ends?

EDIT: nvm, I found out from the warmasters.

[plastiqe]

The first war was a 360 card vault for 6 player teams, and a max of 18 cards of your element (except pillars).  Now that the vault is up to 500 and 9 players I think this limit should be raised to at least 21 or maybe 25 of any one card.

Another thing, under the Losing a Battle section for the later rounds when it is discard 30, you could change it to discard entire deck.  With 30 card discards you're still going to get teams building suicide decks because you can build a 60 card deck with the 30 cards you want to discard and the 30 cards you want to keep and get past that round.  If it was discard entire deck, then you'd be forced to compete in every matchup.

[Xinef]

Another thing, under the Losing a Battle section for the later rounds when it is discard 30, you could change it to discard entire deck.  With 30 card discards you're still going to get teams building suicide decks because you can build a 60 card deck with the 30 cards you want to discard and the 30 cards you want to keep and get past that round.  If it was discard entire deck, then you'd be forced to compete in every matchup.

I guess this part of the rules solves the problem:

3.1. DETERMINING OPPONENTS
Amount of cards in the Vault determine how many players from each team participates on a round:

0-29 cards	=	team is eliminated
30-59 cards	=	1 player fights
60-89 cards	=	2 players fight
90-119 cards	=	3 players fight
120-149 cards	=	4 players fight
150-179 cards	=	5 players fight
180-209 cards	=	6 players fight
210-239 cards	=	7 players fight
240-269 cards	=	8 players fight
270+ cards	=	9 players fight

So if you have 60 or more cards, you have to deploy two people, each with a 30+ card deck. If both lose, you lose 60 cards total and thus are eliminated.
If you have 59 or less cards, you are eliminated after losing 30 cards.

[plastiqe]

Well xinef, you might not remember this from the last war because time didn't make it that far...
: P
..but, in the later rounds you don't have enough opponents to play against, so we had a small number of players playing but with a large vault, and that is where the 60 card suicide decks come into play.

[kev]

I haven't gotten waist-deep in the numbers yet and I don't have time atm but this:

The first war was a 360 card vault for 6 player teams, and a max of 18 cards of your element (except pillars).  Now that the vault is up to 500 and 9 players I think this limit should be raised to at least 21 or maybe 25 of any one card.

Makes sense to me.  It's going to be very (maybe too?) challenging to make 9+ decks with 18/6 card restrictions.  Suppose a team started out with a 450 card vault...

Meh.  I'll get more into the numbers when I have time.

Another thing, under the Losing a Battle section for the later rounds when it is discard 30, you could change it to discard entire deck.  With 30 card discards you're still going to get teams building suicide decks because you can build a 60 card deck with the 30 cards you want to discard and the 30 cards you want to keep and get past that round.  If it was discard entire deck, then you'd be forced to compete in every matchup.

I think SG has a response to this all queued up in her mind, but the scenario raises an interesting point.  Is a Team required to exchange its non-main-element cards into main-element pillars/pendulums to field an additional player?  And whether or not it's required, is this abusable?

I need to think more about all this.

[Xinef]

Well xinef, you might not remember this from the last war because time didn't make it that far...
: P
..but, in the later rounds you don't have enough opponents to play against, so we had a small number of players playing but with a large vault, and that is where the 60 card suicide decks come into play.

Oh, so you mean the very last rounds, when the problem is that you don't have enough opponents to play.

Well, that's an entirely different problem, so it might need an entirely different solution.

For example in a situation when a team has enough cards to deploy a number of players, but does not have enough opponents, a possible solution would be to for example make that team indeed deploy 2 players (or 2 decks for the master), and a randomly chosen one gets a bye.
Or, the other teams might have to defeat the first one, and then the second one in the same round.

There are a number of other possible solutions.

[MrBlonde]

Definitely with how the last War's rules were setup i intentionally made certain deck sizes to take advantage of the rules. So basically if a deck lost i would make sure i ended up with the the amount of cards that fielded the least amount of players.

Thats as simple as making sure that if you lost you ended up with 59 cards rather then 60-63. Especially near the end that was critical.

Losing entire decks would certainly destroy that strategy BUT i think it also would hurt the creation of some of the larger decks. Making decks larger then 30-31 would be risky.

 

[Terroking]

Possible loophole to make for a more exploitable Vault:

Instead of taking a large amount of Pillars/Pends, instead take none, and simply fill up what would have been Pillars with more useful cards like near-useless creatures (In the case of Earth, it'd be Gemfinders. There's really no use for having more than 6) and then just whatever else your element has to offer. When matches are announced, convert only the amount of pillars you need from trash cards, (or just cards you won't need) enabling you to have a much "larger" Vault.


To the idea of losing entire decks:

I think it could have some potential, but it's best not to implement it at least a few rounds in really.

Xinef's idea of having teams with not enough cards fielding the same deck multiple times has some merit, it's something like what I was thinking of suggesting last War.

[Xinef]

Possible loophole to make for a more exploitable Vault:

Instead of taking a large amount of Pillars/Pends, instead take none, and simply fill up what would have been Pillars with more useful cards like near-useless creatures (In the case of Earth, it'd be Gemfinders. There's really no use for having more than 6) and then just whatever else your element has to offer. When matches are announced, convert only the amount of pillars you need from trash cards, (or just cards you won't need) enabling you to have a much "larger" Vault.

It's not a loophole, it's a good strategy

[Scaredgirl]

Vault rules still need some tweaking because we increased team sizes. It's good to have some discussion about it.

The first war was a 360 card vault for 6 player teams, and a max of 18 cards of your element (except pillars).  Now that the vault is up to 500 and 9 players I think this limit should be raised to at least 21 or maybe 25 of any one card.

During War #1 the card max limit was 3 times the number of players on the team. The idea was that half of the players could take the full number (6) of a specific card.

In War #2 teams have 9 players, so the number would be 27. However I think we should drop it to 24 so that it sounds better. We could say that the Rookie is "extra", which is why the max limit is 24 and not 27.

Another thing, under the Losing a Battle section for the later rounds when it is discard 30, you could change it to discard entire deck.  With 30 card discards you're still going to get teams building suicide decks because you can build a 60 card deck with the 30 cards you want to discard and the 30 cards you want to keep and get past that round.  If it was discard entire deck, then you'd be forced to compete in every matchup.

I don't understand the issue here because War #2 rules state that if you have only 60 cards in your Vault, two players have to fight, each with a 30 card deck.

Another thing, under the Losing a Battle section for the later rounds when it is discard 30, you could change it to discard entire deck.  With 30 card discards you're still going to get teams building suicide decks because you can build a 60 card deck with the 30 cards you want to discard and the 30 cards you want to keep and get past that round.  If it was discard entire deck, then you'd be forced to compete in every matchup.

I guess this part of the rules solves the problem:

3.1. DETERMINING OPPONENTS
Amount of cards in the Vault determine how many players from each team participates on a round:

0-29 cards	=	team is eliminated
30-59 cards	=	1 player fights
60-89 cards	=	2 players fight
90-119 cards	=	3 players fight
120-149 cards	=	4 players fight
150-179 cards	=	5 players fight
180-209 cards	=	6 players fight
210-239 cards	=	7 players fight
240-269 cards	=	8 players fight
270+ cards	=	9 players fight

So if you have 60 or more cards, you have to deploy two people, each with a 30+ card deck. If both lose, you lose 60 cards total and thus are eliminated.
If you have 59 or less cards, you are eliminated after losing 30 cards.

Ninja'd.

Thats as simple as making sure that if you lost you ended up with 59 cards rather then 60-63. Especially near the end that was critical.

War #2 rules luckily prevent this situation.

If you start a round with 60 cards, two players from your team have to fight. If only one of these two players win, you will go to the next round.

If you start the round with 59 cards, only one player fights, and if that player loses, the whole team is eliminated because you cannot build a deck with only 29 cards.

Possible loophole to make for a more exploitable Vault:

Instead of taking a large amount of Pillars/Pends, instead take none, and simply fill up what would have been Pillars with more useful cards like near-useless creatures (In the case of Earth, it'd be Gemfinders. There's really no use for having more than 6) and then just whatever else your element has to offer. When matches are announced, convert only the amount of pillars you need from trash cards, (or just cards you won't need) enabling you to have a much "larger" Vault.

Yes, this is definitely an exploit. I haven't still decided how to fix it, but the fact is that is has to be fixed somehow. There are a couple of simple solutions to fix this. We just need to figure out which is the best one.

Xinef's idea of having teams with not enough cards fielding the same deck multiple times has some merit, it's something like what I was thinking of suggesting last War.

I don't understand this problem of these 60 card suicide decks. Team that does it, keeps losing cards while others gain cards so where's the exploit?

[Indrejue]

About the rookie slot what if there is not enough people already signed up that qualify as rookies will you expand its qualifications. and then what about those of use who do not qualify why do we have to get stuck on the sideline especially with no bids on us.