War - Feedback

[Malignant]

An Award for whoever has the most 2-0 wons in the war ?

[Xinef]

new member role: Doctor.
The doctor is actually more like an insurance agent. but w/e
At the beginning of each round, the team chooses any amount of cards less than or equal to 30 cards, and the doctor puts those into the archivial vault. these cards cannot be affected in salvaging/discarding/conversions. They are meant to be an emergency stockpile of sorts.

discuss~

So let's say the team is left with only 30 cards. They field 1 deck... and the doctor saves them from discarding, so even if the team loses the duel, it is left with 30 cards...?

Another situation, the team has 300 cards. They field 9 decks, each 30 card, so in total 270 cards. They save the remaining 30 cards in 'archival vault'. The team goes 0-9 this round, losing all 270 cards. And they get a penalty for an illegal deck. So, normally they would be out of war due to <30 cards, but 'the doctor' saves the remaining 30 cards... thus making the penalty impossible to be executed. What would be the reason for penalizing for illegal decks then, if it can be avoided?


Or maybe I just don't understand what you meant?

[kobisjeruk]

who has ever played a game called Mafia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_%28party_game%29)?
i'm sure some of you know about it since we also have something similar in the F&G board
i've had this idea for a while but didnt put too much thought into it until now

so we have a suggestion for a new role called Prize Fighter and now, Doctor
in some Mafia games, each participants have 2 roles, primary and secondary
i think we can do the same here but changed to public roles and private roles instead
public roles are those that you can see in the team rooters thread
private roles are known only to team members (and warmasters) until some events occur

using earlier suggestions, Prize Fighter can be anyone (it can be selected or given randomly by WMs at the start)
when 2 PF faced each other, they will be revealed as PFs and get the chance to use all upgraded deck for the duration of their duel

for Doctor, what timer suggested is too OP in my opinion
the way i'd go about it is that each round, the Doctor can mark up to 6 (or 12?) cards in vault, granting them immunity from being salvaged by the other teams UNLESS the Doctor lost the duel for that round
this will make salvaging a bit complicated and i believe can only work if we have more manpower i.e. more WMs
salvaging itself goes as usual but as the team decide what to salvage, if the Doctor won, WM will tell the opposing winning teams what cards they cant take (only if those cards are in losing decks, as not to reveal the vault contents)

private roles such as these will make it more interesting in my opinion
but it shouldnt take away responsibilities from the main roles

[TimerClock14]

new member role: Doctor.
The doctor is actually more like an insurance agent. but w/e
At the beginning of each round, the team chooses any amount of cards less than or equal to 30 cards, and the doctor puts those into the archivial vault. these cards cannot be affected in salvaging/discarding/conversions. They are meant to be an emergency stockpile of sorts.

discuss~

So let's say the team is left with only 30 cards. They field 1 deck... and the doctor saves them from discarding, so even if the team loses the duel, it is left with 30 cards...?

Another situation, the team has 300 cards. They field 9 decks, each 30 card, so in total 270 cards. They save the remaining 30 cards in 'archival vault'. The team goes 0-9 this round, losing all 270 cards. And they get a penalty for an illegal deck. So, normally they would be out of war due to <30 cards, but 'the doctor' saves the remaining 30 cards... thus making the penalty impossible to be executed. What would be the reason for penalizing for illegal decks then, if it can be avoided?


Or maybe I just don't understand what you meant?

umm..Yea I think i could have made the explanation clearer. The doctor does not save cards during the duel phase nor directly after it, the process is during deck building phase, the team decides for 30 or less cards to stow away in the archival vault. After dueling that round, say they loose enough cards to be unable to field all 9 players, only 8. The doctor can then remove those cards from the archival vault NEXT deck building phase and therefore are able to field all 9 players. Allow me to clarify: if the above scenario happens on round 2, the next deck building phase is the one in round 3. This is the best use of the doctor's position, but this can happen even if the team can still field all 9 players. Penalties can affect the archival vault.

new member role: Doctor.
The doctor is actually more like an insurance agent. but w/e
At the beginning of each round, the team chooses any amount of cards less than or equal to 30 cards, and the doctor puts those into the archivial vault. these cards cannot be affected in salvaging/discarding/conversions. They are meant to be an emergency stockpile of sorts.

discuss~

Are those cards available for use?

Only the cards the doctor himself removes from the archival vault can be used. The doctor has complete control over transactions between the vault and the archival vault. There would be 2 types of transactions:
Main Vault -----> Archival Vault
Archival Vault -------> Main Vault
The team must consent by at least 50% vote on each transaction. Please note that each transaction can only happen 1 time per deck building phase.

new member role: Doctor.
The doctor is actually more like an insurance agent. but w/e
At the beginning of each round, the team chooses any amount of cards less than or equal to 30 cards, and the doctor puts those into the archivial vault. these cards cannot be affected in salvaging/discarding/conversions. They are meant to be an emergency stockpile of sorts.

discuss~

Uh oh.  What is earth running out of?   

pffff like I'd be gullible enough to say something.

[QuantumT]

This is more of an observation than anything, but one that I think is worth noting.

Many of the war rookies who were very new to the community have already become fully involved members in it. I really think that this indicates an rousing success for the rookie idea in the war, and it is definitely something that should be continued.

[TimerClock14]

@kobis, if the teams were told that they can't salvage certain cards from the losing deck, that defeats the entire purpose of having an archival vault or even the doctor's role itself. The main strategic reasoning behind this role is the element of surprise. Let's say that it's war 3, final round and team earth has a shrieker deck that they stowed away in an earlier round. For the sake of the example, let's say that entropy was the last team besides earth. If earth is worried that they don't have enough shrieker decks to win against entropy. Because of the previous rounds, entropy most likely knows that earth does not have enough shrieker decks. But if they used the shrieker deck in the archival vault, then they would have a good element of surprise and an upper hand against entropy and eventually win. (no offense team ) If entropy salvaged cards from a deck containing shriekers and what you, kobis, said was in place, they would know from the warmaster that the shriekers were being reserved. And would thus render the extra shrieker deck useless as they would have prepared for it.
(please note that in the above example each deck was matched up with the best to fit the example. If you don't know what that means then just ignore it.)

[Shantu]

What's the difference between this archival vault and actually not using those cards in a deck...?

[TimerClock14]

What's the difference between this archival vault and actually not using those cards in a deck...?

You could say that the archival vault is more "vault-like" than the actual vault. It cannot be touched without a majority vote from the team and is handled only by the team's doctor, the WM, and of course SG. Also, cards in the archival vault stay there until removed, there can be more than 30 cards at a time in the archival vault, and lastly: If a deck is using cards that are currently in the archival vault (and have not been removed before the start of dueling phase) that deck becomes illegal and a penalty is issued.

[xdude]

What's the difference between this archival vault and actually not using those cards in a deck...?

You could say that the archival vault is more "vault-like" than the actual vault. It cannot be touched without a majority vote from the team and is handled only by the team's doctor, the WM, and of course SG. Also, cards in the archival vault stay there until removed, there can be more than 30 cards at a time in the archival vault, and lastly: If a deck is using cards that are currently in the archival vault (and have not been removed before the start of dueling phase) that deck becomes illegal and a penalty is issued.

Useless, not a disadvantage
Disadvantage

So, how exactly would this HELP your team?

[Malduk]

What's the difference between this archival vault and actually not using those cards in a deck...?

You could say that the archival vault is more "vault-like" than the actual vault. It cannot be touched without a majority vote from the team and is handled only by the team's doctor, the WM, and of course SG. Also, cards in the archival vault stay there until removed, there can be more than 30 cards at a time in the archival vault, and lastly: If a deck is using cards that are currently in the archival vault (and have not been removed before the start of dueling phase) that deck becomes illegal and a penalty is issued.

I'm really not following the reasoning behind this. You want to limit yourself even more in deckbuilding, have two separate spreadsheets for those two vaults, and add an extra step of communication between involving parties, just to have another player role?
The only reason I saw is "element of surprise", but that are people doing anyway by simply not using cards until they decide to use them.
If I'm not missing something here, then there is no reason to make things more complicated if they are not adding something extra awesome to the whole event. Teams have enough silly mistakes, penalties, and issues with getting everyone online at given time to decide something already.

[kobisjeruk]

by your point timer, theres absolutely no point having archival vault (i first thought nothing can touch it hence OP comment) since all you need to do right now without the Doctor is just post a deck, and mark it as 'protected'
like shantu said, its basically the same thing without all the hussle and tussle
my version is more like protecting certain cards which strategically can negate salvage bonus and it has nothing to do with keeping certain cards in vault

e.g.
let say Team Air doctor mark 2 Owl's Eyes (won their fight that round)
someone from Team Water defeats someone from Team Air and wanted to salvage 2 Owl's Eyes that was used but they cant so they have to salvage 2 other cards (or to have more impact, marked cards will negate the salvage, meaning they lost it instead of having the option to salvage other cards instead of marked ones...in this situation, Team Water can only salvage 4 cards from Team Air. if there happen to be 1 more Owl's Eyes, they can salvage that because the Doctor only marked 2 Owl's Eyes)

edit: wow 2 posts which basically saying what i've wanted to say before i get the chance to post my longtext example
damn you guys are quick this time of day
anyway yeah, useless role is useless

[Demagog]

Just to make luck less of a factor, make matches best 3/5.