War betting - Discussion

[MrBlonde]

Also, considering that Light got eliminate in the same round as Death, they were 4th as well (just saying).

Not 4th. You guys actually ended up in 6th because it goes by card count. Both and had more cards at the end.

[Antagon]

i personally think it should be determited by win/loss percentage.

  16/14
  8/13

they both died same round, but - to be honest - everyone, who played the war, saw that light did better than time, that also means using a suicide deck, if you have to, which lowers card-amount. but they won two times more matches than time, only lost 1 more match. weird.
also substitutes are more than bad (more than they already are) that way.

i think it should be
round, when out -> better win-loss-percentage -> cards left in vault

[Candle]

why is it like that anyways? the rules dont say anything about how the ranking is done. I guess its clear that a team did better then another one if they survived more rounds - but ranking them based on cards left (which they can't use to build any deck) seems silly.
Doesn't really reflect the events of the war if Time was better then Light, considering Time had 8w/13l and Light 16w/14l

Edit: beaten, agreeing with antagon tho

[Dragoon]

I suppose Antagon saying it means a lot more than anyone from Light saying it, but I still agree with his ranking system.  If nothing else, I think it should be implemented in the next War.

[Scaredgirl]

I don't like the win/loss ratio system. Reason for that is card penalties. If we had a win/loss ratio system, a team with tons of penalties would be in a better situation compared to a team with no penalties but a slightly worse win/loss ration. I don't see losing 30 cards to penalties is better than losing 30 cards in a duel.

I look this thing like real life battle. Nobody cares who won or loss individual battles, the ones left standing are the winners. And "left standing" here means cards in Vault.

It's a very simple system and makes sense. Unless someone can point out a flaw in this system, we will go with that. Vault is the core of War and I'd like to use it as much as possible.

[Svenningen]

Im with Antagon here.
If a team has tons of penalties, and still manages to get better win percentage than another team without all those penalties, they really deserve getting that position.

Im sure most people will agree that did better than , its none of my business ofcourse, and i dont know if there is any rewards, but as they went out in the same round, and light has done better, and if they get 4th place because their match was played before time's match(es) that kinda isnt fair either. And im sure even some of the members will admit to that.. And a quick look at their hidden forums will probably show that even more.

[Scaredgirl]

Im with Antagon here.
If a team has tons of penalties, and still manages to get better win percentage than another team without all those penalties, they really deserve getting that position.

I couldn't disagree more.

This event is all about the Vault. Cards in Vault are you "health points". These health points determine winners and losers.

When you lose cards, you lose cards. How you lose them is irrelevant. I don't want penalties to be so insignificant that players don't think they are a big deal. Penalties are a part of this event, designed to make the life of organizers easier. Running War is no small task and every little help is appreciated.

Tip to players who don't want penalties to effect final standings: do not take penalties.

Im sure most people will agree that did better than ...

Well, that debatable.

had one great round, couple of ok rounds, and the rest were a disaster. had a bad start, but they won 3 consecutive matches with their final deck, in a situation where their opponents pretty much knew what cards they had. That's not easy. During that "survival mode", lost almost all matches. I'm not saying either team did better, but I'm saying that it's not so clear-cut.

Also like I've said a thousand times before, card conversion system we will have in War 2 will change many things for the better, including this scoring "problem".

[Xinef]

IMHO did equally good as (but that's a very subjective opinion)

Anyway, the Scaredgirl's system has that one characteristic that teams with poorer vault designs (ie. too few cards of their element) usually lose the war with many cards left, but on the other hand usually die earlier than other teams which balances the system. Unless they lose the same round and the team with slightly better vault design was able to field one more player and thus ends with fewer cards, but then it can be said that they deserve a worse place because they lost with more decks than the other team...

Well, it's hard for me to say whether this system is good or not, but at least it doesn't seem really bad

[Svenningen]

Thats a very good statement Xinef, and I'll look on this as a general-test of the war event, its been quite good so far, and I'm sure war 3-4 will be close to perfect. As in war2 new stuff will be tested!


ontopic, I went through all bets, and NOONE is able to get 4 it seems, noone had  as the top4 elements! But lots had on top, so who knows..



I think its gonna be , but I hope Zeru again win when it mattes, and makes us have a somewhat fair chance to get 2nd if we really push this.

[Scaredgirl]

Anyway, the Scaredgirl's system has that one characteristic that teams with poorer vault designs (ie. too few cards of their element) usually lose the war with many cards left

This is incorrect. Like I've said, card conversion system will change all this. In War #2, what cards you have makes no difference because you can (or are forced to) convert cards to your own element. This will remove a lot of problems like suicide decks or the strategy where a lone player with a massive deck goes forward even when losing.

In War #2 it's only the amount of cards that we look at.

[Candle]

I don't like the win/loss ratio system. Reason for that is card penalties. If we had a win/loss ratio system, a team with tons of penalties would be in a better situation compared to a team with no penalties but a slightly worse win/loss ration. I don't see losing 30 cards to penalties is better than losing 30 cards in a duel.

I look this thing like real life battle. Nobody cares who won or loss individual battles, the ones left standing are the winners. And "left standing" here means cards in Vault.

It's a very simple system and makes sense. Unless someone can point out a flaw in this system, we will go with that. Vault is the core of War and I'd like to use it as much as possible.

If you wanna go with rl examples, you can also look at it like this:
cards of your own elements are your soldiers - no soldiers = you're out.
Cards of other elements would be supplys/weapons etc, theyre useless when you have no more soldiers, so they shouldn't matter at that point.

Obviously I'm biased towards Light, but I wouldn't have a problem if we have 3 teams that are placed 4th either(this would mess with the war bettings tho). But with such a huge difference in wins it feels wrong to me saying time did better then light (light also won the only duel against time, and only lost to either masters or earth/fire opponents^^)

Could just make a poll about it, and give the 9 elements that aren't directly involved 1 vote each(excluding death/time/light)

[Antagon]

I couldn't disagree more.

This event is all about the Vault. Cards in Vault are you "health points". These health points determine winners and losers.

When you lose cards, you lose cards. How you lose them is irrelevant. I don't want penalties to be so insignificant that players don't think they are a big deal. Penalties are a part of this event, designed to make the life of organizers easier. Running War is no small task and every little help is appreciated.

Tip to players who don't want penalties to effect final standings: do not take penalties.

i also think penalties are useless! they shouldve affect only cards of the own element!

and to do pretty good with a single master deck is much more easy, than building more good decks (and try to keep that number).


but i also dont have a problem with that, just saying, that pretty the whole war light - for example - was a far bigger threat for us than time.

or maybe, if more teams drop out in the same round, rank them first looking at the amount of players, they had this round>last round>etc.