War #9 - General Discussion

[Avenger]

So...

These aren't just my sentiments, but are a collection from quiet a few people I've brought this up to. I'm sure you've all been noticing a trend where a few particular teams have been subbing their teammates' games like there's no tomorrow, usually with the general or the most veteran players as well. While I'm not suggesting teams are doing it on purpose in order to boost the probability of winning a match due to skill (though there's a positive correlation to newbie players and who are being subbed out), this at the very least creates an unfairness to their opponents - Newbies will make more mistakes in playing their decks, and part of War's spirit is integrating newbies into competent PvP players with the mentorship of the general and the veterans on the team. Thus, this incessant subbing is getting ridiculous; there literally were only 2 players on a team playing all 5 of the team's matches at some point.

With all this in mind, teams who don't sub (my team, in fact, has not employed ANY subs this whole War up till this juncture) can be disadvantaged and punished because their opponents are allowed to sub freely without sanctions. What I, a few members of team Air, and individuals propose is that if a team employs MORE THAN 1 sub per round, the subbed individual will receive no salvage for the win. And if they lose, they discard 1 extra card.

Inactive players is not an excuse. It is a general's responsibility to ensure teams are active and if not, arrange with a WM about getting a replacement.

Thank you for reading and please feel free to add on to our proposal or to refute it.

This isn't done on purpose. It is because of inactive players. It isn't an excuse, but a reason. This is the direct consequence of Elements being less popular now than before. This war should have been run on 4 person teams.
Anyway, if this rule would be enforced, our team will grant free subs to those who grant the same to us.

[Newbiecake]

Sorry for unpopular opinion puffin.

ian, I may have laid it out too harshly about the part generals being responsible for the activeness of their teammates. It's just that there aren't transparency about why certain players are repeatedly subbed out (not your team). RL > Games of course, but that holds true only until one does not show up for several weeks and then have to be repeatedly subbed with no explanation. I was the victim of that in one of my matches, in which I had to endure much frustration with my scheduling b/c that player hasn't been active for over two weeks prior to the beginning of that round, and I was given no explanation about why that is. Again, transparency is key. We're not trying to "reap benefits" by punishing players for inactivity, but rather discourage such behaviour which makes War not as fun for everybody as it could be, as per my anecdote. I'm not the only one who's had frustrations with having to schedule a match with someone who's been inactive.

We didn't post our sentiments to offend or marginalize anyone. We apologize if we had, and hope we all have a civil and fun time for the rest of the War!

[mrpaper]

How about everyone can choose to salvage from 1 to 4 when they win ( if they are in à position to play less matchs its à big plus) and get automatic half salvage when u sub more then once  a round?  Also yeah having 6 person per team was à bas idea we could see coming.

[iancudorinmarian]

RL > Games of course, but that holds true only until one does not show up for several weeks and then have to be repeatedly subbed with no explanation

I have told this to my team as well: I would go afk for a whole week if it means passing an exam.

I don't have anything else to add.

[Spielkind]

blablub about subbing...

sorry newbiecake, but since round 2 i have no idea how you can argue about subbing and how subbing works...

but for the matter, lets have rules be rules. there is one free sub and its ok. after this, all matches should go:

3.3 DUELS
Players will contact their opponent to try find a time that suits both. If the fight does not happen both players lose by default unless one player is clearly more active in trying to find a suitable time. Warmasters will determine who the most active player is.

we have rules for this, so lets do it as they are written!

[mrpaper]

blablub about subbing...

sorry newbiecake, but since round 2 i have no idea how you can argue about subbing and how subbing works...

but for the matter, lets have rules be rules. there is one free sub and its ok. after this, all matches should go:

3.3 DUELS
Players will contact their opponent to try find a time that suits both. If the fight does not happen both players lose by default unless one player is clearly more active in trying to find a suitable time. Warmasters will determine who the most active player is.

we have rules for this, so lets do it as they are written!

The thing is.. trying to be fair play, teams will almost always allow another sub to be used so unless WMS play it tough it ain't working... we all know it would be easy to claim a free win over a player who hasn't logged in for a month .. but teams wanna win this war by being the best, not by forfeit.  Not sure I'd want WMS to play it tough either though.

[Newbiecake]

RL > Games of course, but that holds true only until one does not show up for several weeks and then have to be repeatedly subbed with no explanation

I have told this to my team as well: I would go afk for a whole week if it means passing an exam.

I don't have anything else to add.

Again, transparency is key. It's natural for the human mind to be frustrated when no answers are given to a question or situation that concerns us; that goes for all of us. If you have managed to inform your opponents what was going on so they won't fret about trying to schedule a match while compromising their own schedules the past rounds, props to you! Obviously, not all teams have done that though.

[dark ripper]

So, we are over half way to this war and some things need to be said. This is my opinion alone and not necessarily represents my team's.

I wanted to talk about subbing. Personally I believe excessive subbing should grant penalties. Several teams sub at least 2 games per round.

First lets give an example. There were 13 subs just last round. 3 of which were from team fire. 3. 3 subs from one team. Lets break that down. HALF THE TEAM IS INACTIVE.
Okay, lets think this through. Sure, this probably isnt the ideal situation for teams that have inactive people, since its tiring to play multiple games per round. But.
 Firstly, this is unfair for other teams that made better/luckier drafts. The people subbing are mostly, if not entirely veteran players. Secondly, war is supposed to be a team event. Veterans and newer members working together, teaching, learning, having fun together. What's the point of having a team that does nothing of the above? Winning? Then what about the teams that actually do have newer members still active in war teams?

Now lets see about other games. Mention other games that half the team or 1/3 of the team  is inactive and at least penalties arent given? Please do. Sure this is a ccg and this event is entirely different than other events from other games, but i think you get my point.

I blame WMs that persist to allow 6 man war teams even if the interest is barely enough and also believe that teams that sub more than once every round should get penalties.

Team Fire was just an example, nothing personal(there are other teams in similar situations as well). Also, this is not about team entropy, its my personal opinion.

[iancudorinmarian]

So, we are over half way to this war and some things need to be said. This is my opinion alone and not necessarily represents my team's.

I wanted to talk about subbing. Personally I believe excessive subbing should grant penalties. Several teams sub at least 2 games per round.

First lets give an example. There were 13 subs just last round. 3 of which were from team fire. 3. 3 subs from one team. Lets break that down. HALF THE TEAM IS INACTIVE.
Okay, lets think this through. Sure, this probably isnt the ideal situation for teams that have inactive people, since its tiring to play multiple games per round. But.
 Firstly, this is unfair for other teams that made better/luckier drafts. The people subbing are mostly, if not entirely veteran players. Secondly, war is supposed to be a team event. Veterans and newer members working together, teaching, learning, having fun together. What's the point of having a team that does nothing of the above? Winning? Then what about the teams that actually do have newer members still active in war teams?

Now lets see about other games. Mention other games that half the team or 1/3 of the team  is inactive and at least penalties arent given? Please do. Sure this is a ccg and this event is entirely different than other events from other games, but i think you get my point.

I blame WMs that persist to allow 6 man war teams even if the interest is barely enough and also believe that teams that sub more than once every round should get penalties.

Team Fire was just an example, nothing personal(there are other teams in similar situations as well). Also, this is not about team entropy, its my personal opinion.

After talking with drippy for a while, I have come to the conclusion that he is right.

+1

[worldwideweb3]

So, we are over half way to this war and some things need to be said. This is my opinion alone and not necessarily represents my team's.

I wanted to talk about subbing. Personally I believe excessive subbing should grant penalties. Several teams sub at least 2 games per round.

First lets give an example. There were 13 subs just last round. 3 of which were from team fire. 3. 3 subs from one team. Lets break that down. HALF THE TEAM IS INACTIVE.
Okay, lets think this through. Sure, this probably isnt the ideal situation for teams that have inactive people, since its tiring to play multiple games per round. But.
 Firstly, this is unfair for other teams that made better/luckier drafts. The people subbing are mostly, if not entirely veteran players. Secondly, war is supposed to be a team event. Veterans and newer members working together, teaching, learning, having fun together. What's the point of having a team that does nothing of the above? Winning? Then what about the teams that actually do have newer members still active in war teams?

Now lets see about other games. Mention other games that half the team or 1/3 of the team  is inactive and at least penalties arent given? Please do. Sure this is a ccg and this event is entirely different than other events from other games, but i think you get my point.

I blame WMs that persist to allow 6 man war teams even if the interest is barely enough and also believe that teams that sub more than once every round should get penalties.

Team Fire was just an example, nothing personal(there are other teams in similar situations as well). Also, this is not about team entropy, its my personal opinion.

After talking with drippy for a while, I have come to the conclusion that he is right.

+1

I wont comment on team fire as thats not my job, but i'll say that most of their team has logged in recently, except Jed.
Onto the next thing, so you would rather have teams get penalties so that other teams can place higher? Or, as a result of penalties, teams fielding suicide decks so they dont get penalty? Because im sure that is what will start happening, and im sure it will be annoying for a player to not get a game because opposition is playing a suicide deck.

[dark ripper]

Team Fire was just an example as I said before. There are other teams that sub multiple games per round as well.

Now to answer your question. I would rather have a ruling that says that teams which sub more than X amount of times per round will get a Y penalty. Im not saying implement this ruling during war atm ofc. But this is my opinion, yes. These are suggestion/personal preferernces for next war. I just dont like the feeling of seeing 3-4 people playing all of the games of one team, thats all.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

TBH, I see this as a sort of Beta War.

So many changes, including a new approach of leniency with subs, market, roles, upgrade amounts etc.

And I think some things are absoulutely brilliant. Sure, market values need tweaking, but that will happen with a new War's worth of data, in general i think it was / is quite a nice way to manage your vault. But yeah prices need serious balancing.

Pillars/Pends being free is just awesome, allows so much more freedom and creativity

Roles, again, are excellent, but need tweaking, especially tinkerer, and the 'necessity' of using Lt.

However. I think that team sizes need looking at. I loved the intention of bringing more new players into war, and it has been lovely in Team Water, where our 2-3 newer players have been fully active and done a great job. With smaller team sizes (or rather more balanced sized depending on number of apps) we can then afford to be a bit less lenient about Subs.