War #8 - Suggestions and Feedback

[iancudorinmarian]

Didn't read past draft. I thought we all hated draft...

I actually liked the old draft system.

[ddevans96]

Pre-set cards, ARTHA? Any reason for suggesting that change? To me it seems like it would make Vault management even more complex, deckbuilding a hassle, and it forces us to have cards we might not want that many copies of or any copies of at all (looking at Water, 9 floodings and the majority of the other cards for example).

[ARTHANASIOS]

Pre-set cards, ARTHA? Any reason for suggesting that change? To me it seems like it would make Vault management even more complex, deckbuilding a hassle, and it forces us to have cards we might not want that many copies of or any copies of at all (looking at Water, 9 floodings and the majority of the other cards for example).

Greater variety, plus it is a noble way to enforce greater balance and originality between the elements (I may explain it more in detail later...).

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that there is an EC card that allows Shards in certain rounds with this ruleset, meaning that cards like Flooding can be more than just good during these rounds. Also, the Pre-Set cards are considered in-element for deckbuilding purposes. Moreover, I have not finished the Pre-Set card balance; I think I have yet to nerf and Pre-Set cardpool as much as I should...

[andretimpa]

PRE-SET cards become regular pillars of their element after being used in a deck and moved back to the vault

this is easily the most problematic aspect of PRE-SET cards, specially for elements that have difficulty salvaging in element. That's why you give teams the choice of what they want to throw away and turn into pillars during conversions.

[ARTHANASIOS]

PRE-SET cards become regular pillars of their element after being used in a deck and moved back to the vault

this is easily the most problematic aspect of PRE-SET cards, specially for elements that have difficulty salvaging in element. That's why you give teams the choice of what they want to throw away and turn into pillars during conversions.

 This is also the least important factor of Pre-Set cards and it is easy to be removed. However, I don't view them as a loss; you will always discard Pillars/Pends at discard phases of War after games where you've lost, so you will always be at great need of new pillars/pends. Moreover, I prefer some Pre-Set cards to be usable just once (especially Quantum Pillars/Towers; they are there to encourage pillar-based rainbows but not to turn War's meta to a rainbow one).
 As for having difficulty salvaging in-element cards, please read the special 5-or-less-team-members conversion rule.

Spoiler for special conversion rule:

IMPORTANT!: If your team has 5 or less players remaining, Salvaged cards may be transmuted at a one to one (1:1) ratio instead!

Didn't read past draft. I thought we all hated draft...

I actually liked the old draft system.

Imho, current draft system is too slow. Draft can be done within a few days. More importantly, buying teammates with tons of cards result in great vault imbalances; +/- 30 cards (or more) difference between vaults is a whole deck and a huge advantage/disadvantage! On the other hand, the Relic-based system doesn't allow for much imbalance between starting vaults and still let you benefit from low bids by keeping more relics to use at War.

[Ginyu]

More importantly, buying teammates with tons of cards result in great vault imbalances; +/- 30 cards (or more) difference between vaults is a whole deck and a huge advantage/disadvantage!

That's a thing to be considered by generals when bidding. They have it in their hand how many cards to spend, though cost increase for banned elements could be a bit lower. I don't mind to keep this system as well, however I am open for other suggestions.

I disagree with using such a conversion rule for 5- team members. Why not just inviting a player that wasn't drafted, but wants to play? Also, 1-1 instead of 2-1 is a huge difference.

[ARTHANASIOS]

I disagree with using such a conversion rule for 5- team members. Why not just inviting a player that wasn't drafted, but wants to play? Also, 1-1 instead of 2-1 is a huge difference.

5-team-members conversion rule has nothing to do with draft and/or player inactivity. It has to do with slim vaults that allow only for 5 (or less) players to have matches with other War teams. Since teams like these are dying, have very few deckbuilding options and in-element cardpool is drying out, the 1:1 conversion ratio allows them to stay alive for longer.

Spoiler for my suggested card - player's fight table:

0-29 cards	=	team is eliminated
30-59 cards	=	1 players fight
60-89 cards	=	2 players fight
90-119 cards	=	3 players fight
120-149 cards	=	4 players fight
150-179 cards	=	5 players fight
180+ cards	=	6 players fight

[Ginyu]

Okay, in that case you should rewrite this part, as it is easy to misunderstand:

IMPORTANT!: If your team has 5 or less players remaining, Salvaged cards may be transmuted at a one to one (1:1) ratio instead!

Still, 1-1 instead of 2-1 is a huge advantage. Also, allowing teams to stay as long as they have 30 or more cards combined with 1-1 will stretch war by several weeks. Not sure if this is a good thing.

[theelkspeaks]

Maybe the way to fix that part of the suggestion is to put a limited number on 1:1s, such as maybe only allowing 5 1:1s per round (and after that the usual 2:1, and maybe only if they're at 3 or fewer players instead of 5.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Okay, in that case you should rewrite this part, as it is easy to misunderstand:

IMPORTANT!: If your team has 5 or less players remaining, Salvaged cards may be transmuted at a one to one (1:1) ratio instead!

Still, 1-1 instead of 2-1 is a huge advantage. Also, allowing teams to stay as long as they have 30 or more cards combined with 1-1 will stretch war by several weeks. Not sure if this is a good thing.

Maybe the way to fix that part of the suggestion is to put a limited number on 1:1s, such as maybe only allowing 5 1:1s per round (and after that the usual 2:1, and maybe only if they're at 3 or fewer players instead of 5.

Part will be slightly rephrased to avoid confusion. As for 1:1 conversion being OP, keep in mind that both the 1:2 and 1:1 conversion rules can be applied only to a salvage, thus it has already a pretty limiting scope because you can convert up to 6 cards (and no more) for each bo5 your team won this round; 5-player-left teams (a.k.a. 179 vault cards or less) are already cornered and they have to pull out a good performance to win even a few games. However, if people think it is still too powerful, allowing it for 3-player-left teams (a.k.a. 119 vault cards or less) can solve this issue, like Elk's suggestion.

[Avenger]

Didn't read past draft. I thought we all hated draft...

I actually liked the old draft system.

Old? As in last war?

I preferred the ancient auction system. I don't care if it takes some time, it gives you time to prepare. Auction is/was part of war strategies.

[ARTHANASIOS]

I preferred the ancient auction system. I don't care if it takes some time, it gives you time to prepare. Auction is/was part of war strategies.

If you wait for War to start in order to start preparing for it you are just too-little-too-late.

Moreover, do you think it is fair for people who enter War prepared to lose a whole week (maybe more) of their real-lives waiting for others to do so while they could had done so since Trials (or even earlier)?

I mean no offence; just my 2 ...