War #3 Suggestions

[kobisjeruk]

I think the penalty for subbing (the no salvage rule) should be gone. Or, at least, half the number of cards you may salvage. It's just not fair. If someone lives in the eastern half of the world and someone else the western, who has to take the loss and risk not salvaging? That's stupid. You can't penalize people based on where they are living.

we have the role - Substitute for that very reason
i dont understand what you're getting at

[truddy02]

I personally think that taking out the multiple matchups is a fine idea, but I don't like the idea of matching based on strength.  The team in last should have an equal chance of fighting the team in 1st or second to last.  Teams at the bottom already have an advantage in not risking as many cards as higher up teams (less matches means less risk).  There is no need to make the strongest teams battle each other just because they are doing well.  They will end up battling each other plenty of times as teams get eliminated and there are only a few left.

[Kael Hate]

Um, easier to show you a result then explain.

Ok, here is a basic version of the tool, don't bother going into the backend, its just a whole lot of mumbo jumbo to do the things you'd do manually.

Use Master to enter the details, and see results. Complain if you don't like it.

ATM it lets teams preference their order of battle but I can randomise that if you want.

[lukce]

I have an idea. Upped war. More simple than this....never.

[Nepycros]

I hope this hasn't already been suggested, but what if each element had special positions aside from General and whatnot, like "Intelligence": Once per day of the war, the intelligence may glean one card from the opponent's general that they will use in the upcoming fight. And "Bodyguard": The opponent must first defeat all bodyguards to reach the chosen player's position (this would only apply to certain positions)

Beyond that, each element could have its own special ability (I know, I know, getting kinda familiar, huh?) Such as "Special Ops" ( ): May attack opponent's special position while ignoring up to 3 bodyguards. Or , may be hired as temporary bodyguards.

What I'm thinking of to achieve, is that some elements can ask members of other elements to perform certain tasks. Kind of like hiring mercenaries, or collaborating with one of your enemies. I think that would be fun.

[Kael Hate]

I hope this hasn't already been suggested, but what if each element had special positions aside from General and whatnot, like "Intelligence": Once per day of the war, the intelligence may glean one card from the opponent's general that they will use in the upcoming fight. And "Bodyguard": The opponent must first defeat all bodyguards to reach the chosen player's position (this would only apply to certain positions)

Beyond that, each element could have its own special ability (I know, I know, getting kinda familiar, huh?) Such as "Special Ops" ( ): May attack opponent's special position while ignoring up to 3 bodyguards. Or , may be hired as temporary bodyguards.

What I'm thinking of to achieve, is that some elements can ask members of other elements to perform certain tasks. Kind of like hiring mercenaries, or collaborating with one of your enemies. I think that would be fun.

Probably better in WoE than here, the War is ment to be somewhat fair with everyone playing by the same rules. WoE on the other hand is a fantasy event with RPG elements.

[guy_fawkes]

i had this idea, i think it's simple, but it changes things a lot...
i'll just put it here:

VAULT can only be made by cards of a different element than the main element.
Deckbuilder can use UNLIMITED cards from their own element and the cards from the vault.
The 50% rule of own element is still enforced.

Discarding (6 cards x round, every round) only works on VAULT CARDS, so if you lost using a mono of you own color you don't discard anything.

The war goes on till a fixed number of rounds are played, every team faces every other element an equal number of times (there's no more eliminations based on vault count).
The scoring system is like a championship: 2-0 : 3 points Winner, 0 points Loser | 2-1 : 2 points Winner, 1point Loser.
The top 4 elements at the end of the rounds face each other in elimination style, starting from semifinals (master fights master, salvages fights salvager and so on...9 battles total, team that scores 5 points advances to final)

Opens to discussion and criticism

i quote myself , seeing round 6 results i still find pretty stupid that people are forced to use "suicide" decks...
teams use suicide decks against stronger opponents and they become stronger and stronger...
is this fun?

no.

war is over by round 5.. can we just forfeit battles between teams with a vault of 400 against teams with half or worse vault..?
it's just prolonging the agony...

[Scaredgirl]

i quote myself , seeing round 6 results i still find pretty stupid that people are forced to use "suicide" decks...
teams use suicide decks against stronger opponents and they become stronger and stronger...
is this fun?

no.

war is over by round 5.. can we just forfeit battles between teams with a vault of 400 against teams with half or worse vault..?
it's just prolonging the agony...

I dislike the use of the word "forced" in that situation. None of the teams were forced to do a single suicide deck. They chose to do those decks by wanting to hold on to their valuable off-element cards, and instead discarding non-Pillar cards from their element. It was a big risk, which in many cases, led to suicide decks. None of the teams were put into a situation where they were actually forced to do suicide decks. It's all about Vault and risk management.

That being said, there needs to be a system to prevent that from happening because I'm sure that the teams will do the same thing again in War #3. Basically we need a system that lets you somehow obtain non-Pillar cards of your element, or get rid of off-element cards, or both.

[Shantu]

Perhaps allow to convert the salvaged cards into cards of your own element during salvaging.

For example, an immolation phoenix rush from beats a speed poison deck from . They could take some chrysaoras, arsenics, or whatever from that deck, but instead they convert those into - let's say - lava golems because they are low on those. Only salvaged cards could be converted, and at the time of salvaging only. Limit it, perhaps, but I think this could help with problems like these.

[Malduk]

None of the teams were forced to do a single suicide deck. They chose to do those decks by wanting to hold on to their valuable off-element cards, and instead discarding non-Pillar cards from their element. It was a big risk, which in many cases, led to suicide decks.

I think we havent discarded a single death card over off-element card during a whole war, while we kept converting off-element cards to our pillars/pends. Fact is also that we never got to salvage a single death card. This round we were unable to field 9 legal decks.
Math is math - last round we finished with 7-2 result. We had to discard 35 death cards, while we salvaged 42 off-element cards. This record barely does anything to our total Vault count, but it shifts the balance of element and off element cards in the Vault. Eventually yes, you must field illegal deck.



While I'm writing a reply, let me get back to the "sudden death" idea. We seriously need means to make War shorter. I liked the entry of the war with earlier rounds having less discards. It gives all involved more matches, lets us see part of opponents strategy before risks become too big etc etc. Then we got an Underworld which brought fresh cards to our Vaults.
But end of the war is NOT close, and we're at some dead stage where elements mostly field what they must, as thats all they have. Or in other words, deckbuilding is not the most interesting thing in the world atm.
Another thing why I think sudden death should be implemented is to make earlier rounds count for something. Having bad start, and being left with couple of players with some sideboard cards should be a bad thing, not a good thing. Small Vaults should feel the pressure and try to fight for some salvages instead of sitting back and trying to just survive multiple rounds with their 1-2 decks hoping they will not cross the Vault size that will force them to field another player.

[Kael Hate]

i quote myself , seeing round 6 results i still find pretty stupid that people are forced to use "suicide" decks...
teams use suicide decks against stronger opponents and they become stronger and stronger...
is this fun?

no.

war is over by round 5.. can we just forfeit battles between teams with a vault of 400 against teams with half or worse vault..?
it's just prolonging the agony...

I dislike the use of the word "forced" in that situation. None of the teams were forced to do a single suicide deck. They chose to do those decks by wanting to hold on to their valuable off-element cards, and instead discarding non-Pillar cards from their element. It was a big risk, which in many cases, led to suicide decks. None of the teams were put into a situation where they were actually forced to do suicide decks. It's all about Vault and risk management.

That being said, there needs to be a system to prevent that from happening because I'm sure that the teams will do the same thing again in War #3. Basically we need a system that lets you somehow obtain non-Pillar cards of your element, or get rid of off-element cards, or both.

We were forced. We took Darkness cards and discarded out of element cards and did not have enough on that round we suicided to make enough legal decks. 118 darkness cards cannot make 8 decks.

[home_wreckaz]

Alright... so seeing there's 13 teams, I actually hope that one team doesn't have to end up going against more than 4Lt/general in a single round... us death actually got it pretty bad this round with 5 generals and 3 Lts and being at round 6, each lost means a discarded deck.

So I've been thinking about it, since there's essentially 13 elements, meaning 13 generals and 13 Lts in total and a maximum of 9 matches per element each round, we give Generals,Lts and other players a different number of points and each round, a team's matches cannot exceed a certain number of points, else there must be a reseed.


For example, I'm thinking that generals would be 2 points, Lts 1 points, other players 0 points then this makes total points sum up to 39 assuming the amount of teams are kept at 13.Since there's only 13 teams, having a maximum point of 3 would require a lot of reseeding so I'm thinking it would be best to have maximum point an element's match should have would be ideally 4 or 5.

This means that in a worst case scenario, one element will only play up to either 4 or 5 Lts or if we're talking generals, a maximum of 2 generals or 2 generals + 1 Lts.