War #3 - Feedback

[YoungSot]

I think this RETREAT idea is worth discussing but I have a feeling I agree with KH on this--a bit complex for the purposes of War.

Can both players declare a retreat on the same game?   Are the total number of cards won/lost the same as with current War settings?  If not, this is a possible exploit--2 mediocre teams collude to allow extra salvage for both teams in order to be more competitive.  Just a thought, not sure I totally get how this works out.

As long as there is a relatively low limit to the number of allowed retreats, I don't see how it's exploitable.

[Sevs]

I like the idea of retreat, well see if it gets approved. Agreed that it should be a penalty not extra salvage.

On another note. I really like this last event card. The sideboard idea was a really good idea. It should make an appearance again.

[deuce22]

I have no idea if anyone has suggested this before, but I know of some people who are definitely opposed to it.

Anyway, I propose that pill/pend conversion become unlimited. I see 2 main effects stemming from this change:

1. no more suicide decks - only had 1 this war so far (and a handful of pseudo-cides), but it always causes a stir
2. more diverse vaults - teams will be able to field a much wider variety of decks, and even if they have an awful round (see water), they will have the opportunity to bounce back the following round. Also, this will make for more even competition in the later rounds.

Just a thought, but curious to see what others think about this.

[coinich]

For the record, our suicide wasn't related to a pillar or pendulum problem, but rather a problem of a lack of other cards.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

I'm personally fine with the conversion this time, it's good even. Just keep some spare pillars/pends and 24 is more than enough.

[the dictator]

Or last round was, we had to chose, save usefull cards from salvages to make some strong decks, or save pillars to be able to use those cards. The thing is, when you lose a lot of matches in a round, you simply use too much pillars/pendulums to stay in. If it wasn't for the event card, we would have had to discard the whole decks, meaning we would have been left with something 2 pillars and 17 pendulums (IIRC).

[Sevs]

I have no idea if anyone has suggested this before, but I know of some people who are definitely opposed to it.

Anyway, I propose that pill/pend conversion become unlimited. I see 2 main effects stemming from this change:

1. no more suicide decks - only had 1 this war so far (and a handful of pseudo-cides), but it always causes a stir
2. more diverse vaults - teams will be able to field a much wider variety of decks, and even if they have an awful round (see water), they will have the opportunity to bounce back the following round. Also, this will make for more even competition in the later rounds.

Just a thought, but curious to see what others think about this.

I agree maybe not unlimited just maybe a bit higher because you lose quite a bit of quanta production with each deck you lose(>24 on many occasions). Needing those 35 card decks and a 24 max conversions really hurts.

[Marvaddin]

I also think pillars / pends shouldnt limit strategies in the War. I see 2 solutions:

1) pillars / pends in vault being "generic", so they can be used as pillars / pends of any elements.

2) vault is reduced, and loss count as, lets say 18 cards in round 5+, but pillars and pends dont count for vault and team can use an unlimited number of them each round.

I would vote for 1, its close to what we already have.

[~Napalm]

So a few of us have a suggestion that we'd like to put forth and see what the rest of the community thinks about it. After noticing the huge problem Vault Auditing is for this war, we started discussing ways to streamline it and possibly change the way War is run altogether. The end result was the following idea:

Master start with 500 "Blank" cards. Whatever they don't use on team members makes up the vault.The vault is divided into "Elemental" cards. At least 50% MUST be that teams element.These "Elemental" cards are then used during the rounds, but can be ANY card from the element they represent.*These "Elemental" cards are also used for your pillar/pend count.Limited to 24 copies of any in-element card and 12 copies of any off-element card each round. (Does NOT include pillar/pend)Salvaging, Discarding, and Conversion would be done with "Elemental" cards, not specifics.50% Deckbuilding rule still applies.

*So if Team Fire has 6 "Air" cards, they can use 6 Wings, 4 UG's and 2 Wings, 2 Shockwaves and 2 UG's and 2 Wings, etc. So long as the 50% deckbuilding rule is met

This would ultimately completely change the way war is run in the following ways:

Vault Auditing would be much simpler. A simple check of 13 numbers and 8 decks would be much easier to do than the current system.Much MUCH more freedom in deckbuilding as there is no limit to what cards you can use, just how many from each element.Less restricted to merely knowing the enemy vaults and playing counters and more about surprising or outmaneuvering your enemiesMuch greater emphasis on deckbuilding than vault management.Far more lenient atmosphere that would ultimately make War less of a chore and more of a game.

Note: This is still a very rough idea and would definitely need all the kinks worked out of it before anything even close could be used. UW for example.

So, now for the moment of truth. What are the opinions on this idea. Discuss.

[SteppingStone81]

Much MUCH more freedom in deckbuilding as there is no limit to what cards you can use, just how many from each element.Less restricted to merely knowing the enemy vaults and playing counters and more about surprising or outmaneuvering your enemiesMuch greater emphasis on deckbuilding than vault management.

+1 ... as you say, this would make War less about vault-building and management and more about building and playing interesting decks.

[TStar]

I think that framework is definitely something that should be strongly considered for the next War.  It it's much simpler and less time-intensive on everyone than the current format and it keeps things more unpredictable and interesting for all players.  Suicides should be almost impossible this way, especially if you allow some type of conversion system of off-element cards to in-element cards.  Another benefit is that every team will have a fighting chance right to the end instead of everyone knowing their decks and easily countering it.  The greatest benefit of all might be the ability for teams to make complete tactical shifts mid-war.  If you come out trying to rush everything for example and totally fail now you can re-think that strategy and change over to stalls.  The current format basically locks you into whatever you initially try in your vault and if you realize it was a strategic mistake there is nothing that can change it and you are left spinning your wheels until you finally get eliminated.

[Demagog]

At the very least, it would be a large enough change to make war interesting again. We're in our third war with basically the same setup as when it started; it's getting kind of old.