War #3 - Feedback

[EngPhys]

The round results are in a pretty good format now, I quite like it. /feedback

[Sevs]

Since its been shown that replacements will be made even after the 1 limit is reached, I have this suggestion to change the rule:

Instead of the formula being a flat -6 penalty, I think it should be -6n. Where n=The number of people you have replaced+1

Ex: You need to replace one person, and haven't replaced anyone before hand. ( (-6)(1) )= -6, which would be the penalty.
Ex: You need to replace three people, but you've already replaced a person before hand. ( -6(2) + -6(3) + -6(4) )= -54, which would be the total penalty.

Not a bad idea actually. We might use that.

Teams that are doing worse usually are the ones with the most people leaving, wouldn't that formula just hurt the remaining players even more?

[Avenger]

Gravity is already crushed, no need to penalize it even more.

[Mithcairion]

Teams are penalized because:

1. It discourages Generals to bid on "high risk" players that have a high probability of either quitting the event, or getting banned from it. Some of these high risk players were recruited in this War, which led to of course teams having to find replacements. That could have easily been avoided by not bidding on them in the first place.

2. If teams are not penalized, it removes the social pressure that stops some people from quitting on a whim. If you quitting makes no difference, you are more likely to quit, compared to a situation where you quitting would hurt 7 other players. Of course there are also the selfish people who quit no matter what because they only care about themselves, but no rule will ever stop them.

Only problem I see with this is that Some players really couldnt have been know, and were probably low risk. Glitch, GG, JMDT, I mean, who would have expected them to drop out in the middle of war? Im not saying if their reasons were good one way or another, but if veteran members like these are more than willing(3) to leave their team hanging, and ignore social pressure, then what is to stop someone else from doing the same?  It feels like more "low risk" players are leaving than the "high risk" ones.  i know its a gamble one way or the other, and dont get me wrong, entropy is enjoying watching the other teams crumble, but it really doesnt seem fair to the teams. Losing a player can be hard enough on its own without the penalty added to it.

I disagree, there IS a way that jmdt, GG, and others who have left could have known.  While the exact workload may have caught him by surprise, jmdt knew what was coming down the pike regarding his schooling and career and that it would leave little time for anything else, if any at all.  Likewise, GG also knew that the end of her senior year was coming up and more or less what that would entail.  Don't get me wrong, I miss both of them as well as the others that have left, but to say that there is no way that people will know what time constraints the future holds for them is simply wrong.  What it means is that they did a poor job looking at what was coming and judging the time they would have available to them, no more, no less.

[suxerz]

These are all suggestions for the next war, thus it does not affect the current one. So, this is not about team gravity - it's more of an example on how to avoid the same situation from happening again in future wars.

Since I do not see this in our current rules; I would like to suggest that on top of any penalties given for replacing players, the team also should have the option to decline using replacement and just sub the missing player(s) for the rest of the war matches. Therefore, they have the option to either loose one pile of cards and hope for the best, or losing advantage in gradual manner (by not being able to salvage when winning with sub).

Basically, my point in this matter that inactivity is a big deal in War. This is the biggest event in the community, thus players shouldn't take participation so lightly. I strongly believe that some sort of penalty is a must in regards of replacement.

[deuce22]

These are all suggestions for the next war, thus it does not affect the current one. So, this is not about team gravity - it's more of an example on how to avoid the same situation from happening again in future wars.

Since I do not see this in our current rules; I would like to suggest that on top of any penalties given for replacing players, the team also should have the option to decline using replacement and just sub the missing player(s) for the rest of the war matches. Therefore, they have the option to either loose one pile of cards and hope for the best, or losing advantage in gradual manner (by not being able to salvage when winning with sub).

Basically, my point in this matter that inactivity is a big deal in War. This is the biggest event in the community, thus players shouldn't take participation so lightly. I strongly believe that some sort of penalty is a must in regards of replacement.

What if there was a penalty for successive subbing. First time a player is inactive, the sub gets no salvage. 2nd time, no salvage with -6 penalty? And keep escalating from there.

[Higurashi]

Glitch, GG, JMDT, I mean, who would have expected them to drop out in the middle of war?

I did, on all three accounts, but I do know more than most about them. Looking at the general reaction, a lot of people were apparently surprised. I dunno why, considering their recent inactivity and mannerisms before commitment, but your point stands due to that in some way. However, vets aren't more reliable at all. In fact, new players have something to prove, and fresh motivation to work for the community, whereas vets tend to get out of touch with the community and lose interest. Heck, you can even see an increased number of them leaving any and all communities on the net during spring when the study load increases, and so on.

Overcommitment affects us like anything else when they leave, and should be penalised like anything else. Since it's going to be, I'm pleased.

[RavingRabbid]

Glitch, GG, JMDT, I mean, who would have expected them to drop out in the middle of war?

I did, on all three accounts, but I do know more than most about them. Looking at the general reaction, a lot of people were apparently surprised. I dunno why, considering their recent inactivity and mannerisms before commitment, but your point stands due to that in some way. However, vets aren't more reliable at all. In fact, new players have something to prove, and fresh motivation to work for the community, whereas vets tend to get out of touch with the community and lose interest. Heck, you can even see an increased number of them leaving any and all communities on the net during spring when the study load increases, and so on.

Overcommitment affects us like anything else when they leave, and should be penalised like anything else. Since it's going to be, I'm pleased.

Well, I kind of expected Jmdt. GG was far far away guessable. But Gl1tch surprised me, definitely.

[willng3]

I've found it interesting that last war we had issues with rookies, the newer players leaving and yet this war the problem has become veteran players departing from their teams.  I seriously doubt it's preventable, but I still have to wonder:  What changed, if anything?

[Avenger]

I think a better system would be to mark players who were inactive (caused penalty for their team) in previous war.
Put an extra auction price tag on them in the next war.
This way, you don't penalize the current unlucky team even more, but more like penalize the player.

[Higurashi]

The new generation has established its presence and with it the community at large has changed. It takes a little bit of time before the old gen has had enough of being out of touch, but their disdain for changes can blind them to the good stuff. When a community grows, content increases and usually less effort is spent on each individual post/thread. This means, if you preferred how it was before, that you have to filter more content. Once that amount has surpassed what you find interesting, the community starts feeling like it's not a place for you anymore.

Learning to filter more is a matter of habit. It usually takes years to be able to ignore your personal disdain and focus on the harder-to-find gems in the dirt and, before you do, a community you've grown out of touch with takes too much energy to process. It happens easily when you've had to focus on your real life for an extended period of time, and the work load almost always increases after the new year, no matter your profession/school program. It's a process that repeats itself every year, and it's how the community develops.

[TStar]

Penalties make sense because a General who selects high-risk players knows they might get screwed.  They made a poor choice, and they get penalized for it.

I think something different needs to be figured out for when a General ditches the team.  At this point you go from having the leader responsible for bad choices having to pay the price for them to the group who got abandoned having to suffer all the consequences of choices they had no part in making.  One of the biggest goals in War is for people to have fun.  Getting a boatload of extra work dumped on you because your General quits isn't fun.  Being slammed left and right with penalties because the General who made the bad decisions and quit is leaving you the mess to clean up is even less fun.  Not only has one of the best players on the team in the General left, you have to pay to replace the only free member of the team in the first place!

I guess my point is there should probably be some sort of Mercy Rule instituted for teams who have a General quit mid-War.  Something like for that 1 Round no penalties will be levied to give the team a chance to get a grip on everything.  Let them replace the General for free, let them sub for that General match with normal salvage, slap a moratorium on things like Vault penalties so the people left can figure out what the heck happened and what's going on.  Living through this now it's incredibly rough having your General completely mess up the Vault an hour before quitting, leaving no time for anyone to know what is going on and getting slapped left and right with penalties for the mistakes of the person in change who quit and compounded by the fact that you can't even get salvage for those games you have to sub for them now.  It's like a one-two-three punch.