War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I mean it's not unfair, the generals all put bids in. It's turned out a little unbalanced, but it is entirely the generals' own doing

[CCCombobreaker]

Copying (and expanding) on a couple thoughts I had during chat discussion on this:
I think in a normal auction system, the current "you pay what you bid" makes sense, because people can see each other's bids and then decide if they want to bid more. you know the "market value" and decide if you want to push that up.  But when you make it a blind system, you are now asking them to guess the market value, which in a market this size and volatile isn't particularly fair.  The current system essentially has General's bidding against the system instead of bidding against each other.  They can't see each other's bids, and the bids hardly affect each other.  This is why if you look at their bids there is crazy variance.  They are all throwing darts blindfolded.  Sure it's "fair" that they are all equally blindfolded and have the same darts, but that isn't a good system for a competitive event.

The current system is high risk - moderate reward. my proposal is moderate risk -moderate reward. The reward doesn't change, the reward is the players on your roster. and my proposal doesn't change a single player on any roster. what it does is lower the risk, and puts the Generals in a position where they are bidding against each other, even if they can't see each other's bids, which is more fitting for a competitive event.

[MyNameIsJoey]

from august 29 for picking wms to october 5 for choosing new gens to november 5 for picking them
2 days for find a new auction system ignoring all the holes in the rules

not only u ruined war for me with a shitty blind auction, u also let me ruin the war for another 3 players, good job

This may be harsh, and if anyone feels like punishing me for it and/or think it's not suitable for a WM, then go ahead.

Look, we're doing what we can here. We have lives, we dont hav emuch time, we are sacrificing ourselves, we cant even be playing  because we're here to save this event for you. We're doing all we can, and do you know what is the very last thing we need? The last thing we need is your complaining about every single fucking detail. Want war to be exactly like you want it to? Thena pply to be WM next time around.

I'll be here to hear your constructive criticism. If you want to keep talking shit, you can go elsewhere. We're already putting a lot of the little free time we have just to organize this for you, and to receive 0 fucking gratitude, and quite the opposite receiving shit for it is really misplaced.

[majofa]

Why didn't you do a Vickrey-style auction?

A Vickrey auction is a type of sealed-bid auction. Bidders submit written bids without knowing the bid of the other people in the auction. The highest bidder wins but the price paid is the second-highest bid.

[shockcannon]

If this system is to be adjusted in the future, players should have to pay the average between their bid and the 2nd highest bid. You should be required to pay a price to ensure you get a player you want. I agree that this draft was not necessarily optimized and now we can adjust it for the future, but this system wasn't unfair. Every general can look at their bids and see the worst and best possible case scenarios just from their bids alone.

It may be a guessing game, but you can know that if you bid 7500 on 3 players and ask for 3 players, there's a chance you will spend 22,500 points on players alone. If you're not comfortable risking that amount then you need to lower your numbers. And if you say, "well then I might not get the players I want," THATS EXACTLY THE POINT. There's a trade off.

Yes, this system limits how much "value" you can get and makes it hard to end up with the highest bid for someone by just a couple points. Honestly though, I think that's fine. You can't guess what other players bid but you can 100% choose your own risk and your reward. But I agree, a better system is possible given more time to develop it. We were short on time this War, but now we can learn and improve in the future.

[Manuel]

if u don't have time don't make the wm your not having time isn't a justification
we (generals) tried to give the max support for helping
other nongenerals  tried to help
you ignored most of our concerns about this new blind auction system

where do u see talking shit? u take things too personal lmao

u can't call "detail" a change of 6000 max cap for all players to a 7500 cap to a single one, i call that a huge hole in the rules that can backfire randomly
it was pointed out, your answer was "then don't bid"
u was able to fix that in 1 minute, u want a higher cost/player? raise the cap to all players to 10000, it was so easy it was pointed out by a council member since u can crititize things only if u have a staff position

it is possible in this community for one time stop acting like being a competition organizer is like being a god?  or even better, stop crying everytime i say something?

Want war to be exactly like you want it to? Thena pply to be WM next time around.

then i'll try to lost my trial final next time

[MyNameIsJoey]

if u don't have time don't make the wm your not having time isn't a justification

I had time when i applied, i got a job since then.

other nongenerals  tried to help
you ignored most of our concerns about this new blind auction system

we made a dozen polls and did everything you asked, i dont see how that,s ignoring you

i

u can't call "detail" a change of 6000 max cap for all players to a 7500 cap to a single one, i call that a huge hole in the rules that can backfire randomly
it was pointed out, your answer was "then don't bid"

Yeah. My answer was, dont be a dumbass, and it wont be a problem. And it was a problem. I wonder why.

it is possible in this community for one time stop acting like being a competition organizer is like being a god?  or even better, stop crying everytime i say something?

This has nothing to do with me being organizer, this is about me being sick of you having no respect whatsoever. If you want to take this conversation to council/admins and want my role removed go ahead, I don't mind.

[Manuel]

bidding on 3 experienced player is "being a dumbass"? i made another 10 lower bids and i ended up counter-bidding myself without knowing what other 11 players was doing lol

this time isn't a community vote or something like trials, i followed the exact rules U made

don't worry i don't need to call my internet """"friends""""" if i have an argument with someone or even worst, i won't put any kind of effort ub trying to ruin your staff carrier
i actually would like to put effort in building the vault if i didn't screw up 1/3 of my points for a blind auction

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I mean bidding 1/4 of your points on 1 player and bidding like 100 on all the others would have made more sense. I think it is harsh to blame wms for a system that 10-11 other gens used fine.
You knew you would get deuce with a max bid.
You asked for 3 players.
What did you think would happen?
This is nobody's fault but yours (though 4 days rather than 2 could have been better)

[Manuel]

hopefully stay under 10k (yes, i was thinking to  not being able to get moe for "only" 3k, same for playeroa), which end up being still terrible looking at other what other gens did

it was an exaggeration bid on deuce? yes but if torb in last war costed almost 5k isn't something so crazy, 7 time master + several wins in war, is normal pay so much a player with so much experience he is currently the only and last to have that record

if i was going to bid only 7500 for every player yes, i was stupid, i did nothing bad or wanted to autosabotage myself

[SurfAngel87]

Is there a post somewhere explaining the basics of war?

[Aves]

Is there a post somewhere explaining the basics of war?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-12-rules/

The first two paragraphs there. Even that is a bit verbose, so tl;dr 12 teams face off against each other to represent their element over the course of a few months.