War #12- Round 4

[Blacksmith]

i'm 11-1 so far after a 12-0 round, let's try to put a variant and turn everything into a bullshit with impossible predictions  Extra upps can increase the win rate of a single deck with 2.5 ttw tops, most decks only 1.5 ttw. Thus making predictions harder but far from completely random as you imply. I truly believe predictions are more important than upgrades. A grabwinder with 30 upps still gets bust vs 6 unupped wings.

there is a role CALLED GENERAL WITH 15 UPS
u can TRY to limit this by using a role called LT WITH 12 UPS

can u explain where is the balancing into not knowing how much ups u will face while u build decks? The balancing is that it's the same for everyone. Besides you still don't know when someone throws a LT role+ relics on you in a normal matchup. The EC is same idea amplified.

blind auction
blind predictions

don't call it war at this point, make it a brawl 2.0 with pvpI don't see the reason for your flaming here. You're on the most broken element and have just gone 11-1 after 3 rounds. If you think the EC is unbalanced or even broken, fine. Come up with suggestions on how to balance it or explain thoroughly why the EC is so of.

On a different note.
I'd also like to see a few more EC ideas being posted. Making a balanced EC that makes war more fun is hard.

[Blacksmith]

don't call it war at this point, make it a brawl 2.0 with pvp

With all this drama it's definitely war we're playing.

[Zawadx]

Making a balanced EC that makes war more fun is hard.

No comment on this EC tho.

[Manuel]

Come up with suggestions on how to balance it or explain thoroughly why the EC is so of
With all this drama it's definitely war we're playing.

which is actually what i'm trying to doing before u entering in the thread accusing other people of flaming or drama (i was also talking to other gens or wm, not with u)
what asdw said, 4/5 upgrade switch is fine, even if the most terrible thing is having it for 3 rounds

It's the same for everyone.

new ec next round
u can decide to use 30 ups at the cost of triple discard in case u lose

it is balanced, same for everyone, totally in line with the previous ec that let u use +2 or +1 upgrade/deck

You're on the most broken element and have just gone 11-1 after 3 rounds

i am 11-1 because we invest several days into testing*
it is a little bit different, and i repeat another time u need to go crying with wm and generals who refused to play a shardless war or with a double element team, not with me

i don't even waste time explaining on how u need to grind for relics round after round giving up an in-battle bonus, it is totally different

ofc my post is supposed to be educational, no flaming or drama

[TheonlyrealBeef]

The EC is not really the same for everyone, it's what I would call a hate EC. You can gain an advantage over a specific opponent, causing some elements to be targetted by a massive overdose of upgrades from all opponents.

[Blacksmith]

Come up with suggestions on how to balance it or explain thoroughly why the EC is so of
With all this drama it's definitely war we're playing. I wasn't 100% serious when I said that.

which is actually what i'm trying to doing before u entering in the thread accusing other people of flaming or dramaIt's hard to interpret intentions on the internet. If that wasn't your intention, I'll take it back and apologise. "don't call it war at this point, make it a brawl 2.0 with pvp" is what made me think so. (i was also talking to other gens or wm, not with u)I assume those discussions didn't take place in this thread? as I'm usually accustomed to. If so, that explains things.

It's the same for everyone.

new ec next round
u can decide to use 30 ups at the cost of triple discard in case u lose

it is balanced, same for everyone, totally in line with the previous ec that let u use +2 or +1 upgrade/deck
Fair point. Just being same for everyone isn't reason enough for an EC to be good. In this case I was just answering your question "can u explain where is the balancing into not knowing how much ups u will face while u build decks? " I think we're talking about different kinds of balancing and thus misunderstanding occurred.

You're on the most broken element and have just gone 11-1 after 3 rounds

i am 11-1 because we invest several days into testing* I wouldn't have said that if I hadn't interpreted your other post as flaming.

The EC is not really the same for everyone, it's what I would call a hate EC. You can gain an advantage over a specific opponent, causing some elements to be targetted by a massive overdose of upgrades from all opponents.

That reminds me of an EC from war 10# where exactly that happened. I don't think anyone actually liked that EC.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war-archive/war-10-round-5/msg1247454/#msg1247454

[serprex]

I liked it, but only because I wanted nothing more than the tears of Solaris

[TheonlyrealBeef]

To balance the EC not just among the teams themselves (net upgrade usage is same) but also among the matches, there should be some compensation for facing an overwhelming number of upgrades.

If that is the goal, an idea would be to compensate teams facing these increased upgrades, say by reducing their discards and increasing their salvage proportional to the number of upgrades. Maybe +1 salvage for every 8 additional upgrades and -1 vault discard for every 4 additional upgrades.

But then a problem arises in fringe cases of teams using +7/+15 on purpose. To prevent that, you could also look into options for team net upgrades faced and options like additional relics. Other teams are forbidden by rule to collaborate in order to reach a specific number, after all. Facing less net upgrades probably does not  need not be penalized.

[shockcannon]

Sometimes I feel like complaining about Super ECs but then I remember that Fire's going to win war either way so why waste my time?

@everyone, thank you for ridding my vault of disgusting cards like sanctuary. I'm glad everyone fell into my trap of discounting Fire after only round 3. Y'all will start talking about this post now but that's just more mind games now isn't it?

@   see you in round 15

[Blacksmith]

To balance the EC not just among the teams themselves (net upgrade usage is same) but also among the matches, there should be some compensation for facing an overwhelming number of upgrades.

If that is the goal, an idea would be to compensate teams facing these increased upgrades, say by reducing their discards and increasing their salvage proportional to the number of upgrades. Maybe +1 salvage for every 8 additional upgrades and -1 vault discard for every 4 additional upgrades.

But then a problem arises in fringe cases of teams using +7/+15 on purpose. To prevent that, you could also look into options for team net upgrades faced and options like additional relics. Other teams are forbidden by rule to collaborate in order to reach a specific number, after all. Facing less net upgrades probably does not  need not be penalized.

Agree with this^
Imo the EC is fine as a long as it's not to used to unbalanced. Having it balanced by reduced/increase discard/salvage depending on how many upps coming your way seems fair.

[dawn to dusk]

An extension on what I said "As an EC it's fine but as a Super it's concerning" you can tone it down easily. The war it came from featured MUCH less upgrades (9/6/3 compared to 15/12/8 of now), which was a fair bit harder to pile on upgrades to. The fact that you only need to sacrifice 1 deck's upgrades to fully upgrade a different deck is horrendous. And although mindgating is a thing, it shouldn't be the reason that an EC is balanced.

My proposed change would to be to introduce a hard limit. Generals can only give 4 upgrades, LT can give 3, Soldiers can give 2 (Making their base upgrades at 11/9/6, with 4 in-element). There was a suggestion at making the hard limit leave the players at 4 upgrades (meaning giving 11/8/4 away), but I feel like that's still too much.
These changes would be much more lenient if it were a regular EC, but since we're stuck with it for the next 3 rounds, making it underpowered in comparison is the better option

[InsignificantWeeaboo]

Sometimes I feel like complaining about Super ECs but then I remember that Fire's going to win war either way so why waste my time?

@everyone, thank you for ridding my vault of disgusting cards like sanctuary. I'm glad everyone fell into my trap of discounting Fire after only round 3. Y'all will start talking about this post now but that's just more mind games now isn't it?

@   see you in round 15

When you're performing poorly so you have to try and cover your failures with ego and "MUH MINDGAMES"