War #11 - Suggestions and Feedback

[Afdarenty]

I really dislike ECs that have the potential to target teams unequally. It feels, to me at least, as though how well we do in War is decided more by who other teams choose to target than our own deck choices. Aether has already had Fractal banned for them in every match during Round 2, and these types of EC have caused a few problems in the past as well.

Some examples, from this and previous Wars:

Spoiler for ECs:

War 9, Round 10


War 9, Round 12


War 10, Round 5


War 10, Round 9


War 10, Round 10


War 11, Round 1-3


War 11, Round 4

[Zawadx]

Note: Vaultbuilding has too much effect on the course of war, and forces you into micromanagement from the very start. Consider fixes to that.

Now, the first super EC ended a while back. How did it do? Please, leave some feedback on the matter.

1. After seeing the first 2 Super ECs, do you have faith in them?
2. Do you think the Super ECs are interesting additions, or are they unnecessary?
3. Do you think Super ECs should replace regular ones?
4. How balanced was the first Super EC?
5. What are your thoughts on the bans system from the first super EC being implemented into next war? What do you think should be modified before this happens?
6. What are your thoughts on the concepts of these ECs, and all ECs so far? Are they interesting? Bland? Overcompensating? Tell us your thoughts!

Please, any feedback you leave will help me make the future ECs better for everyone. So I'd love to hear all your thoughts.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Note: Vaultbuilding has too much effect on the course of war, and forces you into micromanagement from the very start. Consider fixes to that.

Now, the first super EC ended a while back. How did it do? Please, leave some feedback on the matter.

1. After seeing the first 2 Super ECs, do you have faith in them?Faith in super ECs, absolutely, could be very cool. HOWEVER huge care needs to be taken with these, as misbalance of them has a huge effect on war. Consider aether who for 3 rounds could not use most of their decks. (holy crap am i actually agreeing with one of deuce's rants?)
2. Do you think the Super ECs are interesting additions, or are they unnecessary? not sure i undersstand the difference to question 1
3. Do you think Super ECs should replace regular ones?nah, both are cool, and i like the idea of ECs affecting super ECs, allows much more dynamic restrictions. However BALANCEEEEE
4. How balanced was the first Super EC? well, it wasn't horific, but yeah, it was unbalanced. mainly against aether.
5. What are your thoughts on the bans system from the first super EC being implemented into next war? What do you think should be modified before this happens? if you get a card banned in a matchup, you should be allowed to use up to 6 copies of a card not in your vault... or SOMETHING like that, maybe not 6, but something to make you not completely nuked if you didn't vaultbuild in a varied way
6. What are your thoughts on the concepts of these ECs, and all ECs so far? Are they interesting? Bland? Overcompensating? Tell us your thoughts!very interesting. a bit unbalanced as discussed, but concept wise a much more inventive fix to the stale meta problem. Love the idea, excecution is a little funky. ECs are always an issue, because people complain if too big impact and they complain of too small

Please, any feedback you leave will help me make the future ECs better for everyone. So I'd love to hear all your thoughts.

[MyNameIsJoey]

War, in its 11 iterations so far, is an event that both lasts a very long time, and is a very win-more environment. The worse you do, the worse it becomes and comebacks are extremely difficult if possible at all.

IMO, the first part is not the right one to fix. We can't just make war a monthlong event, it would remove the whole war aspect of it. What I think could be worked around is a help for lower teams to come back up.

Ideas to go around that?
1- Vault is split in two. You start with half your vault, and get your other half in round X ( let's say 4). So you first play 3 rounds, you can see what goes wrong, and try to fix it in your vault when you add your other half between rounds 3 and 4.

2- After every X rounds ( let's say 5) you get the right to put all your cards back into the market and buy new ones.

3- Have a new soldier role. You are allowed to add 6 cards in your deck that are not in your vault.

Those ideas Can help with initial vault mistakes, can attempt to help get new ideas when teams are down and done for, can try to keep a little hope in the bottom teams later into the event.

P.S. I'm not saying those ideas are perfect, far from it, and probably most people will disagree with them completely, but I think it's a decent base idea that could be worked around.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I think these or similar could be great. War always feels like a total snowball

[dragonsdemesne]

jijo and I threw around a few ideas, and the best one I could come up with was an event card that would say something like this:

Event: Each team may exchange up to 500 points worth of cards in vault for an equal or lesser amount of points of other cards.

There would have to be a few limitations.  For instance, you can't take more cards than you trade in, to prevent something like selling one Shard of Freedom for 10 Plate Armours to trade in on discards.  I also rejected my earlier idea of swapping cards 1:1, because you could do the opposite, and trade in Plate Armours for Shards of Freedom 1:1 later on.  Capping it at a number (500 was chosen pretty much arbitrarily) would prevent just redoing your entire vault, which also has problems.

This idea also avoids the win-more problem that jijo was trying to avoid (like giving teams +100 vault points per win in a round, so winners get more than teams already losing) or the losers-benefit idea that I had (teams get 50 points to spend per ranking in war, so 1st place gets 50 points and 12th gets 600 points; again, values arbitrary just to illustrate the concept)

Some sort of in-element restrictions might also be appropriate, but I didn't see any need to develop anything now.

[hainkarga]

Event card idea for some fun prediction times;
"All roles are disabled and teams don't build decks this round. Teams can use any deck (of any element) that was used in the previous round for any of their members but with only 6 upgrades. Losers discard 30 cards from their vault."

Bonus: Correctly guess the deck that will be most used this round. Gain 1 relic.

[RavingRabbid]

[20:02:29] ‹RavingRabbid› ‹@Fippe94› Yeah, but that one loss round 1 would have meant we could've discarded 6 cards to not discard 24 cards much later for us.
[20:02:36] ‹RavingRabbid› And 6 discards round 1 are never crippling.
[20:02:45] ‹RavingRabbid› Unlike 24 discards round 7.
[20:16:18] ‹RavingRabbid› Check us and Fire's progression aside from round 1, equal. this note in red was added as I was posting.
[20:16:24] ‹RavingRabbid› We're getting 1 less relic than them.
[20:17:28] ‹RavingRabbid› God I feel like deuce
[20:18:13] ‹hainkarga› ‹@RavingRabbid› behind that mask, there is the idea of deuce. and ideas are bulletproof.
[20:18:36] ‹RavingRabbid› If you remove round 1, where losing is not punishing, we're 8-11 and fire is 9-11
[20:18:41] ‹RavingRabbid› Yet, fire gets one more sh relic.
[20:18:55] ‹RavingRabbid› Earth is 10-10, and gets 1 more relic
[20:19:21] ‹RavingRabbid› Death is 10-10, they get 2 relics less than earth.
[20:19:48] ‹RavingRabbid› Probably should be round 3 -> onwards.
[20:20:14] ‹RavingRabbid› Maybe half effect for r2.

[Spielkind]

[20:02:29] ‹RavingRabbid› ‹@Fippe94› Yeah, but that one loss round 1 would have meant we could've discarded 6 cards to not discard 24 cards much later for us.
[20:02:36] ‹RavingRabbid› And 6 discards round 1 are never crippling.
[20:02:45] ‹RavingRabbid› Unlike 24 discards round 7.

You really cry about winning round 1 4:0? honestly, stop that, now! You had decks to rule round 1, you did not discard anything AND salvage 24 cards! so you talking about discarding 6 cards for not discarding 24 now? first you have a plus of 12 due to salvage, have till now more cards than if you lost those 12 cards earlier AND you realy think 1 Sg-relic will be enough to let you loose a match or win it this round? with 12 cards more left from your vault? and never would have needed those 12 cards till now? sorry, but this looks so much wrong to me...

i will not complain about whining of some will force many to loose relics... but its ridiculous...  for me you could have given all of us 3 relics and good... i dont need those comeback and help-the-lowest EC´s, i just like randomizing and versatile stuff.

[RavingRabbid]

[20:02:29] ‹RavingRabbid› ‹@Fippe94› Yeah, but that one loss round 1 would have meant we could've discarded 6 cards to not discard 24 cards much later for us.
[20:02:36] ‹RavingRabbid› And 6 discards round 1 are never crippling.
[20:02:45] ‹RavingRabbid› Unlike 24 discards round 7.

You really cry about winning round 1 4:0? honestly, stop that, now! You had decks to rule round 1, you did not discard anything AND salvage 24 cards! so you talking about discarding 6 cards for not discarding 24 now? first you have a plus of 12 due to salvage, have till now more cards than if you lost those 12 cards earlier AND you realy think 1 Sg-relic will be enough to let you loose a match or win it this round? with 12 cards more left from your vault? and never would have needed those 12 cards till now? sorry, but this looks so much wrong to me...

i will not complain about whining of some will force many to loose relics... but its ridiculous...  for me you could have given all of us 3 relics and good... i dont need those comeback and help-the-lowest EC´s, i just like randomizing and versatile stuff.

You know me, and you know I only complain when I feel like it's correct, when it's RNG or when I want drama.
Losing 2 games r1 is nowhere near as crippling as losing 2 games r3 onwards, and yes those 12 cards never made a difference because I know which 12 cards those are.

[worldwideweb3]

Losing 2 games R1 puts you in a worse shape and you’re more likely to perform worse in latter rounds.

[iancudorinmarian]

Losing 2 games R1 puts you in a worse shape and you’re more likely to perform worse in latter rounds.

Team Entropy disagrees.