*Author

Offline Zawadx

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3197
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 53
  • Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Zawadx brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • Officially Eisoptrophobic
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerCompetition - Won War as a Worthless WarriorWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWar #8 Winner - Team FireBrawl #3 Winner - Divine LightSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239658#msg1239658
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2016, 02:36:45 pm »
Last war the prices were enough so that nobody except maybe Gravity, Life and Water had an ideal vault. This actually led to the leading teams innovating various decks and finding success, which I didn't see as much in War 8.

But last time we had 20k points and 1k-2k spent on bidding. This time we have far more than that... which means deuce's concerns might be true. Have the prices been raised enough to lay interesting constraints on the teams?
When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

Offline mrpaper

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2047
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 24
  • mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerHeir of the False GodsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #8 Winner - Team FireSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWar #7 Winner - Team AetherThe 2nd Avatar - Winner of the PvP EventWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of EarthSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupChampionship League 1/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 3/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 1/2011 3rd PlaceBeginners League 3/2010 3rd Place
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239664#msg1239664
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2016, 04:12:53 pm »
Teams did had to make hard choices and I'm sure some pass on off dims deck even though its effective for everyone and settled for another mono or cheaper duo.  Shards were having limited use as well except for the ones that are op.  As for light.. they rely a ton on stalls which are filled with high  cost cards... Which is why I asked they get some sort of a break (did ask for a break for life too).  Cards like angel/hope etc which are good but very little used outside element could be cheaper.

Offline Odii Odsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1790
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Odii Odsen hides under a Cloak.
  • Mr. SoV
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2016 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 1/2016 1st PlaceVampire King of Devil's GateChampionship League 3/2015 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #8 - Sportsmanship AwardWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2014 2nd place8th Trials - Master of DarknessChampionship League 1/2014 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 3/2013 WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2013 3rd Place7th Trials - Master of DarknessChampionship League 1/2013 3rd placeChampionship League 3/2012 3rd PlaceWinner of Draft #3 - PvP EventWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 2/2012 WinnerBeginners League 1/2012 2nd PlaceBeginners League 2/2011 3rd Place
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239665#msg1239665
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2016, 04:16:05 pm »
Fire hadn't enough good decks. It was just a pain to build a decent vault with high prized cards, the lowest budget of all twelve elements and having a stubborn General around.  :P
Like I already said last war, teams need a small discount on their own cards.
"It doesn't matter where you are.
It doesn't matter who you are.
It doesn't matter you are.
Odii will beat you regardless of chances." - RavingRabbid

Offline Vangelios

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2931
  • Country: br
  • Reputation Power: 36
  • Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • War Hardcore Player
  • Awards: War #11 Winner - Team LifeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2015 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2015 3rd PlaceForum Brawl #4 WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner8th Trials - Master of FireBattle League 3/2013 WinnerBattle League 2/2013 Second PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2013 3rd PlaceBattle League 3/2012 Winner
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239667#msg1239667
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2016, 04:26:11 pm »
Fire hadn't enough good decks. It was just a pain to build a decent vault with high prized cards, the lowest budget of all twelve elements and having a stubborn General around.  :P
Like I already said last war, teams need a small discount on their own cards.
stubborn ah? I regret not have been more stubborn yet :D , well some decks out was SOG firestall, some 2 Bravery decks, bonebolt, one good sosac based fire deck, and UG nymph deck (tinkerer)
Brawl - 4 :fire Red Stars
The luck is much Greater, when there effort and patience.

Offline Blacksmith

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2123
  • Country: se
  • Reputation Power: 30
  • Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • Happy to help!!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake11th Trials - Master of Earth10th Trials - Master of EarthWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner7th Trials - Master of EarthWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239678#msg1239678
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2016, 06:02:58 pm »
Fire hadn't enough good decks. It was just a pain to build a decent vault with high prized cards, the lowest budget of all twelve elements and having a stubborn General around.  :P
Like I already said last war, teams need a small discount on their own cards.
This is the forth person I see mentioning this lately. Maybe we should have a quick vote or consider adding it into the rules right away. I guess it will affect how big our staring vaults are a bit, but it should be quite easy to compensate it with less starting coins.
Purple Hillbilly reporting, ready for teamwork and shiny times. 

Offline mrpaper

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2047
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 24
  • mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerHeir of the False GodsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #8 Winner - Team FireSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWar #7 Winner - Team AetherThe 2nd Avatar - Winner of the PvP EventWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of EarthSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupChampionship League 1/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 3/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 1/2011 3rd PlaceBeginners League 3/2010 3rd Place
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239680#msg1239680
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2016, 06:11:41 pm »
Fire hadn't enough good decks. It was just a pain to build a decent vault with high prized cards, the lowest budget of all twelve elements and having a stubborn General around.  :P
Like I already said last war, teams need a small discount on their own cards.
This is the forth person I see mentioning this lately. Maybe we should have a quick vote or consider adding it into the rules right away. I guess it will affect how big our staring vaults are a bit, but it should be quite easy to compensate it with less starting coins.

I'd be more then ok with 10% discount but 10% smaller number of coins if it is what you imply!

Offline Blacksmith

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2123
  • Country: se
  • Reputation Power: 30
  • Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • Happy to help!!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake11th Trials - Master of Earth10th Trials - Master of EarthWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner7th Trials - Master of EarthWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239685#msg1239685
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2016, 06:32:20 pm »
Fire hadn't enough good decks. It was just a pain to build a decent vault with high prized cards, the lowest budget of all twelve elements and having a stubborn General around.  :P
Like I already said last war, teams need a small discount on their own cards.
This is the forth person I see mentioning this lately. Maybe we should have a quick vote or consider adding it into the rules right away. I guess it will affect how big our staring vaults are a bit, but it should be quite easy to compensate it with less starting coins.

I'd be more then ok with 10% discount but 10% smaller number of coins if it is what you imply!
We have 30K to start with. The average team cost should be around ≈3K. Which leaves us with 27K to spend on our vault. 50% of the vault has to be in element, so 13.5K for in element 13.5K out of element. 10% discount on 13.5K is 1.35K. 1.35K of 30K is 4.5%.

So if we lower the price of in element cards with 10% we have to decrease the vault size by 4.5% in order to keep everything else the same. It Shouldn't have a huge impact on war but still be a nice addition.
Purple Hillbilly reporting, ready for teamwork and shiny times. 

Offline mrpaper

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2047
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 24
  • mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerHeir of the False GodsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #8 Winner - Team FireSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWar #7 Winner - Team AetherThe 2nd Avatar - Winner of the PvP EventWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of EarthSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupChampionship League 1/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 3/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 1/2011 3rd PlaceBeginners League 3/2010 3rd Place
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239688#msg1239688
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2016, 06:43:02 pm »
I believe 50% is in the number of cards, not value of the vault... That said I get the maths and yeah 4.5% less available but 10% discount in element is great for me.

Also I believe it will have a big impact as teams will look more for theyre own cards then go for popular cards (nova, dims, deflags, steals, etc.).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 06:45:42 pm by mrpaper »

Offline PhyssionTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
  • Country: nz
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Your friendly neighbourhood owl
  • Awards: 11th Trials - Master of DarknessSlice of Elements 8th Birthday Cake10th Trials - Master of Darkness2nd Grandmaster Battle Winner - DarknessSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWar #9 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerMaster Flag - Winner (Air Flag)9th Trials - Master of DarknessSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239748#msg1239748
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2016, 02:22:26 am »
In-element discounts will increase vault sizes, meaning that to keep War at 10-12 rounds, you'll have to pay for that -10% elsewhere.

I expect most Generals will be going for 24 copies of their key cards regardless of market prices, whether they're incredibly cheap or incredibly expensive. The leftover points from that 10% discount will, therefore, mostly be going into off-element cards.

An example, with some bloated numbers to see the effects:

Spoiler for Example:
As General of Team Darkness, I need lots of copies of my most important cards, Liquid Shadow and Cloak. Liquid Shadow costs 200 points, Cloak costs 100 points.
I also want lots of Skeletons, Antlions, Mindgates and Fire Spirits in my Vault, all costing 100 each, but I only have 10,000 points to spend.



With standard pricing:
I take 20 copies of Liquid Shadow and 20 copies of Cloak in my Vault. This costs me 4,000 + 2,000 = 6,000 points spent on my in-element cards.
I can now afford to buy 20 Skeletons and 20 Antlions, for a grand total of 10,000 points spent for my vault of 60 cards.

With discounted pricing: (20%)
I take 20 copies of Liquid Shadow and 20 copies of Cloak in my Vault. This costs me 3,200 + 1,600 = 4,800 points spent on my in-element cards.
I can now afford to buy 20 Skeletons, 20 Antlions and 12 Mindgates, for a grand total of 10,000 points spent for my vault of 72 cards.



With standard pricing, I spent 10,000 points to get 60 cards.
With 20% discounted pricing, I spent 10,000 points to get 72 cards... a 20% larger vault.

Obviously, without numbers at exact intervals of 100 points each, this isn't going to be a perfect representation of what will happen in a real situation, but the point still stands.
In-element discount = more off-element cards = larger vault = longer War.



From here, after vaultbuilding, the options for controlling War's length are:
  • Have a longer War. War will go on for another 1-2 rounds... potentially even longer, depending on the game-changing power and number of cards each team buys with their extra points.
  • Increase discards. Larger vaults means they need to decay at a faster rate for War to end at the same time. Much more punishing in the later rounds, when teams are struggling to hold onto the cards they need to win matches.
  • Decrease the number of vaultbuilding points. Lower the number of total vaultbuilding points so that vaults don't become too bloated. At this point, you have to ask yourself... is this actually better than having the much neater flat rate for all teams in the market?
  • Let the WMs control the vault size decline with tougher Event Cards. Your call.

This has been my line of thinking for not wanting to give teams an in-element discount. I've had several experienced War players build mock Vaults for several teams for me, and I have already tuned the initial vaultbuilding points/discard values to end War at round 10/11 without any event card modification at all - our ECs will simply make small changes here-and-there over the course of the event to make sure everything is going according to plan.

A 10% in-element discount could mean another 1,000-1,500 points for some teams to spend on more off-element cards.

If you want to continue requesting this discount, I'll listen to your feedback, but I want to make sure you're all aware of the implications first.

Offline Vangelios

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2931
  • Country: br
  • Reputation Power: 36
  • Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Vangelios is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • War Hardcore Player
  • Awards: War #11 Winner - Team LifeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2015 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2015 3rd PlaceForum Brawl #4 WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner8th Trials - Master of FireBattle League 3/2013 WinnerBattle League 2/2013 Second PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2013 3rd PlaceBattle League 3/2012 Winner
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239749#msg1239749
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2016, 02:33:48 am »
10% be ok since now are 30k instead 20k for each general, if are 1000/1500 you can reduce of 30k to 28k each general and apply the descount
Brawl - 4 :fire Red Stars
The luck is much Greater, when there effort and patience.

Offline mrpaper

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2047
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 24
  • mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerHeir of the False GodsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #8 Winner - Team FireSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWar #7 Winner - Team AetherThe 2nd Avatar - Winner of the PvP EventWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of EarthSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupChampionship League 1/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 3/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 1/2011 3rd PlaceBeginners League 3/2010 3rd Place
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239750#msg1239750
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2016, 02:47:18 am »
10% be ok since now are 30k instead 20k for each general, if are 1000/1500 you can reduce of 30k to 28k each general and apply the descount
This!

Offline hainkarga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Country: tr
  • Reputation Power: 25
  • hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerRent a deck - WinnerWinner of Team PvP #6Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeWar #6 Winner - Team AetherWar #5 Winner - Team AetherWinner of Sideboard #3 PvP Event
Re: War #10 - Market Prices https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62295.msg1239766#msg1239766
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2016, 08:24:24 am »
teams need a small discount on their own cards.

I like quoting odii here and there.
Meritocratic Technocracy

 

anything
blarg: Khaleesi