War #10 - General Discussion

[Aves]

Out of curiosity I've read back 5 or six pages just to get a rough picture what's this all about. So even today: War = drama?

This reminds me of a little story - it may or may not be relevant: Back at War#3 both me and my brother participated. We were drafted into different teams while living in the same house: even having our computers in the same room! As my work schedule was quite chaotic back then, sometimes he helped me out making deck compilations (no Vault tools then) and furthermore, as we were always familiar with each other's passwords, on one occasion he even posted them for my team - on my request, in our secret section(!) - when I couldn't make it in time before the deadline.

Apart from that there was always the opportunity for us to run through the other team's secret sections while the other was away to gain an upper hand, or we could just simply share it between each other. At the end of the day, it all came down to trust and having fun; but could any other than us tell?
It was a well known fact that we're family, and we also had the same IP going of course. Even after my team dropped out, we kept on discussing strategic decisions when he was preparing for their matchups. Nobody had any objections about any of this and never once we were accused of 'cheating' because of it, or even the thought of penalties for such was unheard of. And the game and the community was still thriving at that time.

So, in general, may I ask what's the point for all this?

As far as I can tell, the difference in your case (and with the current chrispybacon84+RapidStar_ brothers, as well as other cases) is that you've all presented yourself as separate entities. Serp+Kae were trying to play as one unit. By the current standard player = person (rather than player= account), that is "sharing information" because the rules refer to individuals. Basically, if you and your brother had decided to join the forums on one account, you both would've been barred from PvP.

[andretimpa]

Out of curiosity I've read back 5 or six pages just to get a rough picture what's this all about. So even today: War = drama?

This reminds me of a little story - it may or may not be relevant: Back at War#3 both me and my brother participated. We were drafted into different teams while living in the same house: even having our computers in the same room! As my work schedule was quite chaotic back then, sometimes he helped me out making deck compilations (no Vault tools then) and furthermore, as we were always familiar with each other's passwords, on one occasion he even posted them for my team - on my request, in our secret section(!) - when I couldn't make it in time before the deadline.

Apart from that there was always the opportunity for us to run through the other team's secret sections while the other was away to gain an upper hand, or we could just simply share it between each other. At the end of the day, it all came down to trust and having fun; but could any other than us tell?
It was a well known fact that we're family, and we also had the same IP going of course. Even after my team dropped out, we kept on discussing strategic decisions when he was preparing for their matchups. Nobody had any objections about any of this and never once we were accused of 'cheating' because of it, or even the thought of penalties for such was unheard of. And the game and the community was still thriving at that time.

So, in general, may I ask what's the point for all this?

As far as I can tell, the difference in your case (and with the current chrispybacon84+RapidStar_ brothers, as well as other cases) is that you've all presented yourself as separate entities. Serp+Kae were trying to play as one unit. By the current standard player = person (rather than player= account), that is "sharing information" because the rules refer to individuals. Basically, if you and your brother had decided to join the forums on one account, you both would've been barred from PvP.

But as ARTH pointed out, that would actually be "a larger violation of the rules" than just a hydra.

[worldwideweb3]

I've pmed math about it but wanted public opinion on it too. So, near start of war, aves asked me the order of S/D/T and asked if we were allowed to discard the salvage from the same round last war. Math confirmed with us two that this war we were not allowed to do this. Couple days before, while casually chatting, i found out that other teams had been discarding the salvage they got that round, which WMs failed to catch. Having heard of that, i was pretty annoyed that what we thought of as illegal, was actually legal in other teams' opinions, as WMs only told us of this rule, and failed to let other teams know of this at any occasion. Now, i asked them if we can, from now onwards, be allowed to do this, as other teams have been doing it throughout war without any consequence. Would like to have what other people think on this. Poor us and darkness...

[iancudorinmarian]

I can confirm what www3 said. I have asked this earlier in war and got the same answer.

I would not agree however for a change in rules at this point in war. At best WMs should be a little more careful and penalize this if it happens (should be easier now with only 3 teams left).

[rob77dp]

I've pmed math about it but wanted public opinion on it too. So, near start of war, aves asked me the order of S/D/T and asked if we were allowed to discard the salvage from the same round last war. Math confirmed with us two that this war we were not allowed to do this. Couple days before, while casually chatting, i found out that other teams had been discarding the salvage they got that round, which WMs failed to catch. Having heard of that, i was pretty annoyed that what we thought of as illegal, was actually legal in other teams' opinions, as WMs only told us of this rule, and failed to let other teams know of this at any occasion. Now, i asked them if we can, from now onwards, be allowed to do this, as other teams have been doing it throughout war without any consequence. Would like to have what other people think on this. Poor us and darkness...

I can confirm what www3 said. I have asked this earlier in war and got the same answer.

I would not agree however for a change in rules at this point in war. At best WMs should be a little more careful and penalize this if it happens (should be easier now with only 3 teams left).

As for in this War, we treated the order as similar to what my teams did in past Wars... that being DSCTP (in full) which is:
Discard --> Salvage --> Conversion --> Transmutation --> Penalty
This war was simply DSTP since pillar/pendulums are non-vaulted cards. At least, this is what our Team's objective was each round... decide discards, figure out salvages, and then determine what we might want to change into in-element along with resolving penalties.

It seems counter-intuitive to be able to discard cards (i.e. - give up for attrition in the lost battle/match) that you didn't have coming into that battlefield (round). I do not recall asking WM's or anyone about this myself this War but it seemed no change mentioned so I continued what was held in the past and which also aligned with how battle/War would intuitively shake out.


--Rob

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Since vault allows this perfectly fine, I personally figured it would be allowed just fine. If wms do not check this either, there is no point in disallowing it, except for penalizing honest people. I also do not see a significant problem with it, I guess this being a problem wasn't something wms realized, because vault discards are new this war. For the same reason, vault discard fodder was initially underestimated.

I think transparency was something we missed more often this war: making sure everyone knows when and why teams are penalized are the best way to prevent other teams from breaking the same rule (in this case discarding stuff on the round it was salvaged).

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Full disclosure, I had absolutely no idea this was illegal, and it never even occurred to me that it would be. Not certain, but pretty sure I was doing this at some point, but it doesn't say anywhere in rules that it was illegal :/

[Jenkar]

Double full disclosure
Hey maybe this is why we managed to get such a good vault all the time till the last round.
I mean separating phases is so 2010

[Blacksmith]

Double full disclosure
Hey maybe this is why we managed to get such a good vault all the time till the last round.
I mean separating phases is so 2010

I don't think this would have mattered a lot until late in war. And I don't see any reason for such a rule.

[Ryli]

I asked the team about this, but got outvoted 3-1, so assumed I was just mistaken.

[Blacksmith]

I asked the team about this, but got outvoted 3-1, so assumed I was just mistaken.

I don't remember this. I guess I must have misunderstood.