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Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg370732#msg370732
« on: July 24, 2011, 10:25:58 am »
Vault 2.0 Alpha

Ok, it's time to build a new Vault spreadsheet for War.

War is supposed to be about deckbuilding and duels, not about spending hours and hours with spreadsheets. This is why it's important to have a Vault that makes everything very simple for players. We are looking for the best PvP players, not the best accountants.

Here is the current Vault 2.0: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydFh5VE9kMlh4TFM2aGdUVWxTREZGUUE&hl=en_US WARNING: It's really unfinished at this point.

Here are some features that we need to implement:

Current Vault
This shows the current Vault situation. It's a sum of Starting Vault and round salvages, discards, etc.
Current Vault = Starting Vault + Round Sheets

Starting Vault
This is where players pick the cards they start with. It will be used to calculate Current Vault and will be locked by the organizers once the event starts.

Round Sheets
These sheets will contain everything that is happening during that round.

- Deck codes (and images?) for each player.
- Salvaging
- Discarding
- Bonuses
etc.


I'll add more stuff later.

suxerz

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg370741#msg370741
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 11:31:54 am »
Nice spreadsheet. I like the new layout. Also, thanks for sharing the development of this spreadsheet.

Though this might be too early to ask questions, but I would like to know more about the direction of this development especially the objective. It seems that the vault will be integrated with the tools (specifically deck verifier and DSCP). So, does it mean that it is compulsory? i.e. teams will need to update everything in this new vault each round.

As of now, I still believe the vault and the tools should be separated. I'm concerned mainly about these three things:
  • Audit trail - With the existence of just one tab for current vault, I imagine it will be hard to audit the vault. Though history will be stored in separate tabs for each round, it looks like the data stored there will just be the raw data; not the actual card counts for every round.
  • Efficiency - a complex vault system may cause the spreadsheet become really slow.
  • Fool proof - basically, the fear of curious users messing up with the formulas. >.<

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg370762#msg370762
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 01:55:45 pm »
The deck images might be able to work directly with planplan's deck image creator.
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suxerz

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg381367#msg381367
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2011, 07:20:16 pm »
Recently, I've been made aware that Jen-i, Jenkar, Napalm and few others are working on a project to build the new vault/tools. Joining the discussion, I finally decided to reveal what I used in the previous 2 wars. So, before I forgot about this again, HERE (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApI-50p2LmlcdHlOSy1DcWJMSjZNb2cyTGxjczNEVmc&hl=en_US) is the spreadsheet. It was in excel in war #2, and I transferred it to googlesheet in war #3.

Bear in mind this is a separate tools; not an integrated vault that SG is proposing. Also I'm saying this again, I'm still reluctant to have an integrated compulsory vault because I feel it would leads to lots of problems. Btw, the spreadsheet is still on view only because I don't want people messing with the formulas. ;)

So, here are some details about the sheet. I'll go tab by tab (prepare for wall of text!)  ;D


A. Main Panel
    This tab is open for edits.[/li]Most inputs will be entered here (apart from the initial vault and D&S)[/li]The top part (Deck verifier) is reusable - I kept it as reusable because decks' history are already kept in the forum thread. It also doesn't interfere with the vault; the sole purpose is to check the decks legality.[/li]The lower part (DSCP) is divided by rounds. Basically here is where you input the DSCP (all in deck codes format). This affect the vault, so it's pretty critical.[/li]
B. D&S Overview
    This tab is open for edits too.[/li]It's also reusable but this mainly because I hate creating duplicate tabs just for the same reason. Besides, the codes are in the Main Panel and cards should already been posted in forum threads. Also, it doesn't interfere with the vault directly.[/li]To use it; copy paste the deck codes - your own decks and your opponents deck if you won that particular match. This will give an overview of the possible DS options. After selecting the cards, two long deck codes will be generated (cell K17 & Q17). Then, copy-paste these codes to the corresponding cells in the Main Panel tab.[/li]
C. Vault
    This tab will be kept for view only (locked)[/li]A proper name should be CURRENT vault as it shows the cards you currently have.[/li]Nothing much here other than the cards, your team (main element), percentage of your main element and number of players able to play.[/li]The number of players can be adjust easily (if the rules change). It points to a slightly hidden table at the bottom.[/li]
D. Deck Verifier
    This tab will be kept for view only (locked).[/li]It's reusable and it depends on the input from the Main Panel.[/li]Basically this is where the formula is stored to determine the decks legality.[/li]It also served the purpose of identifying what is causing a deck to be illegal.[/li]There's few problems and limitations to this function, but I'll describe it below.[/li]
E. Disc_Salv_Conv
    This tab will be kept for view only (locked).[/li]It's NOT reusable since it is keeping track of all the DSCP from the beginning. It also take the input from the Main Panel.[/li]Basically this is where the formula is stored for DSCP.[/li]This also acts as an audit trail on what goes into and out of the vault (but in a complex way).[/li]Again, there's few problems and limitations to this function, but I'll describe it below.[/li]
F. Initial Vault
    This tab is open for edits too but should be locked after vault is finalized.[/li]As the tab's name, this is where you input the cards for your initial vault.[/li]To use it; select your team (main element). This will determine the 12/24 cards rule. A fail check is available next to each card.[/li]
G. Summary
    This tab is open for edits too. [/li]Not much use other than to display your current vault and the remaining cards after decks are built in a list format. Each column can be filtered or sorted accordingly.[/li]
H. Ref.
    This tab will be kept for view only (locked).[/li]Formula-related use only.[/li]

Problems & Limitations (that I can think of)
  • General - if the war rules will be changed drastically, this will probably not applicable anymore.
  • General - if haven't noticed this yet; it DOES NOT work for Team Underworld. I haven't figure out how to tweak this spreadsheet for them, but I think it probably a lot more easier and less complex if it's built separately.
  • Event cards - might need manual intervention, but some (e.g. extra discards) can be put in the penalty column.
  • Deck Verifier - it doesn't check the amount of upgraded cards because cards are always considered as unupgraded in vault.
  • Deck Verifier - it doesn't have a much simpler way to display what's wrong with an illegal deck.
  • Deck Verifier - one illegal deck due to taking more cards from the vault will cause the subsequent decks to be marked as illegal too; regardless the cards used in the subsequent decks. Thus, you have to "fix" that particular deck before moving on to the next.
  • DSCP - it works until the end only if war lasted in less than 10 rounds. But, this can be remedied easily just by adding more columns/cells/etc.
  • DSCP - same with deck verifier, it doesn't have a much simpler way to display an invalid DSCP.
If I have the time, I will probably work on points 4-8 and a separate spreadsheet for Team Underworld. Nothing in mind atm, but I think points 4-8 is possible, thanks to Jenkar for discovering the Filter() function.



So, there.. end of wall of text. Honestly, I'm not sure what good would it bring by posting this, especially when the spreadsheet is open for view only :P. I just hope that this would open a discussion on how the new vault/tool should be. Also, I'm not sure what exactly the direction of this project - who is officially handling it, is it final to have an integrated vault, etc (mainly everything I asked in my earlier post). I hope that once SG is back, she will provide more attention to this. I'll gladly offer my assistance if required.


Offline Jen-i

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg381792#msg381792
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 07:42:01 pm »
Sux - I loved your sheet for the formatting and what seems like a fairly simple UI - it sure steered me in some solid directions.

here's our sheet take a look at it - it too is locked from editing until we get things a little more stable - but feel free to poke around until then.

Ultimate Vault Management Tool (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvdifMTdMyhEdGdXa0VObk5tN0t0aWhIRVg2aGRnS1E&hl=en_US#gid=10)

If you are interested in helping send me a forum pm - I'd love to have some additional assistance.

My thanks to Jenkar & Karty who have been huge helps in getting this working.

Lux Kyrie

Scaredgirl

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg390312#msg390312
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 04:30:03 pm »
Sux - I loved your sheet for the formatting and what seems like a fairly simple UI - it sure steered me in some solid directions.

here's our sheet take a look at it - it too is locked from editing until we get things a little more stable - but feel free to poke around until then.

Ultimate Vault Management Tool (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvdifMTdMyhEdGdXa0VObk5tN0t0aWhIRVg2aGRnS1E&hl=en_US#gid=10)

If you are interested in helping send me a forum pm - I'd love to have some additional assistance.

My thanks to Jenkar & Karty who have been huge helps in getting this working.
To anyone who doesn't know, this is now the official Vault 2.0 that we will hopefully be using for next War. Go check it out and post feedback here.

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg390314#msg390314
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 04:32:43 pm »
Sux - I loved your sheet for the formatting and what seems like a fairly simple UI - it sure steered me in some solid directions.

here's our sheet take a look at it - it too is locked from editing until we get things a little more stable - but feel free to poke around until then.

Ultimate Vault Management Tool (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvdifMTdMyhEdGdXa0VObk5tN0t0aWhIRVg2aGRnS1E&hl=en_US#gid=10)

If you are interested in helping send me a forum pm - I'd love to have some additional assistance.

My thanks to Jenkar & Karty who have been huge helps in getting this working.
To anyone who doesn't know, this is now the official Vault 2.0 that we will hopefully be using for next War. Go check it out and post feedback here.
It's awesome.  I have high hopes for organization this next War, and that's saying a lot since Vault management was one of my biggest fears during the War.

+rep for the hard work.
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Scaredgirl

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg390316#msg390316
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 04:40:52 pm »
+rep for the hard work.
Just to make sure nobody misinterprets that.. I personally had nothing to do with the building of that Vault.

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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg390317#msg390317
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 04:43:28 pm »
+rep for the hard work.
Just to make sure nobody misinterprets that.. I personally had nothing to do with the building of that Vault.
Yeah sorry, +rep to Jen-i  ^-^
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Re: Vault 2.0 Alpha https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29046.msg390540#msg390540
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 02:26:54 am »
Wow,i didn't even know our spreadsheet became official!
We are now ready at 95%, the only thing missing is the script - Napalm is dabbling into script-writing atm to try to make it.
We also did a 4 rounds simulation. Went perfectly (script was done manually for simulation).
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