Post by: deuce22 on October 29, 2017, 05:26:26 pm
[13:17:41] ‹deuce22› it's not that it's a difficult card to counter for us, it's that it's impossible to counter
[13:17:52] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› nope. SoP is strong. so is fractal. so are dims. so is discord. Sofree is broken
[13:17:57] ‹deuce22› best case scenario, I make a deck that has 30-40% chance like this one
[13:18:49] ‹deuce22› the f*****g card protects your creatures, boosts them, and makes them bypass shields...wtf
[13:18:55] ‹TheonlyrealBeef› Fractal, Dims and Discord were broken. Then enter the scene SoFree and they look balanced in comparison.
[13:19:08] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› It can rush faster than most. It can stallbreak any stall. It can even leave you 6 free deck slots to do whateve you like with. it's broken
[13:19:09] ‹deuce22› I can't control it
[13:19:28] ‹deuce22› I can't outrush it, especially with fog/EE/TS/SW too
[13:21:42] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@deuce22› Start a petition, I'll be the second to sign it after you :P
Non-air members sign here. K thnx bye
Post by: iancudorinmarian on October 29, 2017, 05:27:02 pm
Post by: Aves on October 29, 2017, 05:41:27 pm
Post by: Manuel on October 29, 2017, 05:43:25 pm
Post by: worldwideweb3 on October 29, 2017, 05:49:51 pm
Post by: deuce22 on October 29, 2017, 05:51:15 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/XlJhTvi.png)
1. we thought we had something with at least 50% chance
2. this doesn't help during all other rounds in war
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on October 29, 2017, 06:16:04 pm
Post by: Zawadx on October 29, 2017, 06:21:14 pm
Round 3 EC: The bans you make in this round for the Super EC count for the rest of war.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtrDfhUwAAS-NF.jpg)
Post by: Vangelios on October 29, 2017, 08:37:28 pm
Post by: RapidStar_ on October 29, 2017, 09:18:48 pm
Post by: chrispybacon84 on October 30, 2017, 02:46:59 am
That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...
Pulvy tho
Post by: RapidStar_ on October 30, 2017, 08:17:33 am
That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...
Pulvy tho
SoSac tho...
Post by: chrispybacon84 on October 30, 2017, 08:29:37 am
That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...
Pulvy tho
SoSac tho...
Purify tho...
Post by: RapidStar_ on October 30, 2017, 08:31:16 am
Shard of Focus tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...
Pulvy tho
SoSac tho...
Purify tho...
Post by: chrispybacon84 on October 30, 2017, 08:33:00 am
Shard of Focus tho...Purify tho...SoSac tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...Pulvy tho
SoFree tho!
Post by: RapidStar_ on October 30, 2017, 08:35:25 am
Shard of Focus tho...Purify tho...SoSac tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...Pulvy tho
SoFree tho!
Rain Of Fire, Thunderstorm tho...
EDIT: Pandemonium too tho...
Post by: chrispybacon84 on October 30, 2017, 08:37:56 am
Shard of Focus tho...Purify tho...SoSac tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...Pulvy tho
SoFree tho!
Rain Of Fire, Thunderstorm tho...
EDIT: Pandemonium too tho...
Miracle tho :sillyspin:
Post by: RapidStar_ on October 30, 2017, 08:39:56 am
Shard of Focus tho...Purify tho...SoSac tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...Pulvy tho
SoFree tho!
Rain Of Fire, Thunderstorm tho...
EDIT: Pandemonium too tho...
Miracle tho :sillyspin:
Multiple novas at once, pandemonium, your singularity gets PU'd to the opponent, and then lightning your own singularity. Then Quintessence the opponents singularity.
Post by: chrispybacon84 on October 30, 2017, 08:41:57 am
Shard of Focus tho...Purify tho...SoSac tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...Pulvy tho
SoFree tho!
Rain Of Fire, Thunderstorm tho...
EDIT: Pandemonium too tho...
Miracle tho :sillyspin:
Multiple novas at once, pandemonium, your singularity gets PU'd to the opponent, and then lightning your own singularity. Then Quintessence the opponents singularity.
Alright cool, holy cow tho
Post by: RapidStar_ on October 30, 2017, 08:43:02 am
Shard of Focus tho...Purify tho...SoSac tho...That's like you guys banning deflag and steal, and then playing dims...Pulvy tho
SoFree tho!
Rain Of Fire, Thunderstorm tho...
EDIT: Pandemonium too tho...
Miracle tho :sillyspin:
Multiple novas at once, pandemonium, your singularity gets PU'd to the opponent, and then lightning your own singularity. Then Quintessence the opponents singularity.
Alright cool, holy cow tho
Upgraded holy cow. Break the game. The only solution tho?
Post by: CleanOnion on October 30, 2017, 03:01:00 pm
Post by: Higurashi on October 30, 2017, 03:09:42 pm
Post by: kaempfer13 on October 30, 2017, 03:12:30 pm
I mean, I always liked War better without shards.
There are only 12 aether symbols in this post
#totally unbiased
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on October 30, 2017, 03:13:16 pm
I mean, I always liked War better without shards.
Shards make all elements more evenly balanced, which would be good. Except air which they make obscenely good, which is bad.
Post by: Afdarenty on October 30, 2017, 03:29:25 pm
The fact that we can play a deck vs Aether every round with little risk despite them predicting it each time is a problem.
The assumption that SoFr makes Air too strong in general is untrue in my opinion. It has never been our most used or highest winrate deck. It has never felt irreplaceable, as some of our other decks have. The only justification for banning it is how strong it is against Aether.
If anyone finds an Aether legal War deck that consistently beats SoFr then I don't think it should be banned at all. I have one idea in particular that I'd like to test more, but it's around 60-40, or maybe 65-35, for Aether at best.
As things stand, I wouldn't be opposed to an outright ban on SoFr in War #12 - just make the other Air cards a good amount cheaper to compensate.
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on October 30, 2017, 03:33:49 pm
Afda, the problem is that sofree requires very specific counters, and that makes you so much stronger as a whole because your other decks often beat our sofree counters with ease.
Post by: Higurashi on October 30, 2017, 07:15:17 pm
I mean, I always liked War better without shards.
Shards make all elements more evenly balanced, which would be good. Except air which they make obscenely good, which is bad.
I'd sub "all" for "most" and that's because all elements can use all shards, but some not very well. Either way the thematic impact is that it reduces the differences between the elements.
As for approaching a better overall balance, I think more upgrades do a better job than shards. Upgrades accentuate the difference between elements and produce fewer hard counter situations, which are quite uninteresting to watch. On the flip side, a problem with upgrades can be that games become faster and less interesting for that reason instead.
Considering I've never liked shards in any organized PvP since day 1, I'd say so.I mean, I always liked War better without shards.
There are only 12 aether symbols in this post
#totally unbiased
Post by: Vangelios on October 30, 2017, 09:41:17 pm
Just going to throw in my thoughts:
The fact that we can play a deck vs Aether every round with little risk despite them predicting it each time is a problem.
The assumption that SoFr makes Air too strong in general is untrue in my opinion. It has never been our most used or highest winrate deck. It has never felt irreplaceable, as some of our other decks have. The only justification for banning it is how strong it is against Aether.
If anyone finds an Aether legal War deck that consistently beats SoFr then I don't think it should be banned at all. I have one idea in particular that I'd like to test more, but it's around 60-40, or maybe 65-35, for Aether at best.
As things stand, I wouldn't be opposed to an outright ban on SoFr in War #12 - just make the other Air cards a good amount cheaper to compensate.
Reading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.
About your argue that Sofre not be your most winrate or not is most winner deck is because the people does decks to counter Sofree and not for counter another air decks
if air don't have Sofree you can expect more counters for another air decks, but I think you know that, right? :silly:
Post by: Afdarenty on October 30, 2017, 10:21:56 pm
Reading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.I disagree that SoFr is more powerful than a handful of other cards, however I do think the fact that we can field a deck vs Aether and expect it to win every round is a bad thing.
Afda, the problem is that sofree requires very specific counters, and that makes you so much stronger as a whole because your other decks often beat our sofree counters with ease.
About your argue that Sofre not be your most winrate or not is most winner deck is because the people does decks to counter Sofree and not for counter another air decksThat's certainly true, but it's also true of our Sanc Stall, Dark Duo, Nymphs... Any strong deck, really, in any Element. For me, that's what War is all about - you can't beat everything. That's why prediction is as important as it is.
if air don't have Sofree you can expect more counters for another air decks, but I think you know that, right? :silly:
Post by: Blacksmith on October 30, 2017, 10:24:18 pm
If you think that the role is to powerful you can balance it. For example it could be worded like this:
Preventer: Ban X cards for your opponent vs Preventer this round. Preventer uses X4 less upgrades, not less than 0.
Preventer: Ban one card for your opponent vs Preventer this round. Your opponent is allowed to use 3 extra uppgrades
Just a thought, that would balance more than the sofree issue. One problem is if all teams uses it vs the same opponent round after round. But is that likely?
Post by: deuce22 on October 30, 2017, 10:43:49 pm
I'm glad afda agrees that one deck to rule them all against even a single element should be banned.
While I hate shards in PVP, let alone war, I agree with JCJ that it has added some balance to some weaker elements in war.
Honestly, if Sofree were limited to say 3 per deck (maybe 4?), it would be beatable from an aether perspective, but I haven't tested this. Hell, even if sofree was actually banned, aether would still struggle against air because the element counters us in so many different ways. But if I can predict the deck that my opponent brings, I should be able to find a way to beat it. Whether I bring those cards to war or still have them in my vault is my own problem, and a necessary part of war.
Post by: Vangelios on October 30, 2017, 10:56:43 pm
Have at least 3 :aether decks that I know that can beat sofree consistently, if you don't think SoFree is more OP than some others cards so don't agree with one ban for war 12 so easilyReading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.I disagree that SoFr is more powerful than a handful of other cards, however I do think the fact that we can field a deck vs Aether and expect it to win every round is a bad thing.
but if you says "It has never felt irreplaceable" well then please use one replace deck, if don't is many relevant for air is very relevant for the rest 11 teams
Post by: deuce22 on October 31, 2017, 12:00:31 am
Have at least 3 :aether decks that I know that can beat sofree consistently, if you don't think SoFree is more OP than some others cards so don't agree with one ban for war 12 so easilyReading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.I disagree that SoFr is more powerful than a handful of other cards, however I do think the fact that we can field a deck vs Aether and expect it to win every round is a bad thing.
but if you says "It has never felt irreplaceable" well then please use one replace deck, if don't is many relevant for air is very relevant for the rest 11 teams
Do you know how many times I've heard this? Still waiting for 1 idea to actually work...
And where were you last war with these ideas? Huh?
Post by: hainkarga on October 31, 2017, 12:54:50 am
Post by: deuce22 on October 31, 2017, 01:58:06 am
I thought you would try sosacs.
In my testing, hasn’t worked. Might work vs AI, but not human
Post by: killsdazombies on October 31, 2017, 02:13:27 am
That said, I dont think its fair to put a limit on airs shards while others are let loose, either all or nothing in my book. (And I'm for nothing)
I think the biggest thing to note is that people aren't saying "Play sofree win every game" theyre saying "play sofree win every game against aether" And there are other polarizing match ups as well, this just being one of the most extreme cases.
Post by: MyNameIsJoey on October 31, 2017, 02:20:02 am
Post by: killsdazombies on October 31, 2017, 02:36:12 am
Post by: deuce22 on October 31, 2017, 02:49:12 am
Is now really the time or the place? During war?
yes, please :-*
Post by: Vangelios on October 31, 2017, 03:49:30 am
Try this one perhaps you likeHave at least 3 :aether decks that I know that can beat sofree consistently, if you don't think SoFree is more OP than some others cards so don't agree with one ban for war 12 so easilyReading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.I disagree that SoFr is more powerful than a handful of other cards, however I do think the fact that we can field a deck vs Aether and expect it to win every round is a bad thing.
but if you says "It has never felt irreplaceable" well then please use one replace deck, if don't is many relevant for air is very relevant for the rest 11 teams
Do you know how many times I've heard this? Still waiting for 1 idea to actually work...
And where were you last war with these ideas? Huh?
Post by: deuce22 on October 31, 2017, 03:51:46 am
Try this one perhaps you likeHave at least 3 :aether decks that I know that can beat sofree consistently, if you don't think SoFree is more OP than some others cards so don't agree with one ban for war 12 so easilyReading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.I disagree that SoFr is more powerful than a handful of other cards, however I do think the fact that we can field a deck vs Aether and expect it to win every round is a bad thing.
but if you says "It has never felt irreplaceable" well then please use one replace deck, if don't is many relevant for air is very relevant for the rest 11 teams
Do you know how many times I've heard this? Still waiting for 1 idea to actually work...
And where were you last war with these ideas? Huh?
I have tried variations of this. Works vs AI most of time, but much less so vs human
Post by: Vangelios on October 31, 2017, 04:14:59 am
Post by: Aves on October 31, 2017, 04:59:46 am
Is now really the time or the place? During war?This.
While generalized meta discussion is one thing, going into specific counter decks and exact builds seems like it crosses the line a bit, folks.
Post by: worldwideweb3 on October 31, 2017, 08:05:30 am
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on November 01, 2017, 09:00:13 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/XlJhTvi.png)By banning the cards we did, we were convinced we would face a deck similar to the one we did. We added the deck we used for the sole purpose of beating a single deck of a single element. It seems only fair that we would try and beat it to set an example it is not unbeatable, rather than delay the inevitable. I estimated the chance per game of our deck to win against a certain General variant of this SoFree deck at over 60%. You add two bloody Shockwaves and the odds turn against us.
We have tried a plethora of ideas over the past months, I have basically been discussing a counter with deuce since trials. Shard of Sacrifice and Sundial are pretty much the only ways to consistently stop the damage of a combination of Damselflies, Sky Dragons and Shards of Freedom. So then you must ask yourself: how do you build an Aether deck around it that deals enough damage in time for this much stalling to matter? Aether cards are expensive. Phase Recluses extremely vulnerable to CC and are blocked by Wings, Psions lack in offensive power, are not particularly sturdy and are still blocked by Sundial. SoW Dragons is the best kind of offense that does not suffer from CC, Fog Shield or Wings. But it is very, very slow. And SoSac SoW Dragons is definitely something I have tried, but it is unlikely to work against a human opponent. 15 Aether Pillars, 5 Phase Dragons, 5 SoW, 5 SoSac off Mark. And you will never get enough offense unless you can get Phase Dragon + SoW before your first SoSac.Have at least 3 :aether decks that I know that can beat sofree consistently, if you don't think SoFree is more OP than some others cards so don't agree with one ban for war 12 so easilyReading your text it seems that you recognize that Sofree is OP and willing to accept a ban on war 12, that is cool.I disagree that SoFr is more powerful than a handful of other cards, however I do think the fact that we can field a deck vs Aether and expect it to win every round is a bad thing.
but if you says "It has never felt irreplaceable" well then please use one replace deck, if don't is many relevant for air is very relevant for the rest 11 teams
Do you know how many times I've heard this? Still waiting for 1 idea to actually work...
And where were you last war with these ideas? Huh?
Lets face it, the fact that SoFree bypasses pretty much EVERY kind of protection without requiring time to setup or having specific counters, while simultaneously protecting your creatures from CC to boot, is just crazy. You can hard counter SoW and Psions with Reflective Shields, you can destroy a Catapult before it can launch a creature. Momentum + Immortality does fall in a similar category as SoFree, but there are no deadly fast combos available for this. I know SoFree does not protect against mass CC, but that is of little consequence when facing Sky Dragons.
But maybe deuce, RR, I and everyone else deuce has discussed trying to build a counter with are all just noobs at deckbuilding. You will have to forgive me for being skeptic about this claim until it is backed up with a consistent counter (75+ % win chance per game) to a small variety (Sky Blitz, Wings, Shockwaves, Thunderstorm and Fog) of mono Air SoFree decks that is at least 50% Aether, to boot.
While you are at it, give me counters to bw decks that work against other main decks of every elements.Been there, done that. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/round-1-166/(extra-salvager)-xn0ize-3-1-uzumakinaruto-(sideboard)/
Focuses on beating CC-heavy Bone Wall decks, you can just use Brimstone Eaters and Minor Phoenixes to beat down Bone Walls in other cases.
I mean, I always liked War better without shards.As do I.
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 01, 2017, 10:19:07 pm
#balance
Post by: TribalTrouble on November 01, 2017, 10:24:50 pm
I do think some Shards have a place in War. It should not be an all -or- nothing answer that is given. As far as which Shards have their place, I would trust Warmasters judgment on which are more akin to the power level and impact of pre-existing cards within the War format rather than my own thoughts on the matter.
Post by: hainkarga on November 01, 2017, 10:54:06 pm
MOD COMMENT: Please don't share decks and strategies in the middle of War.
Post by: worldwideweb3 on November 01, 2017, 11:04:48 pm
Post by: deuce22 on November 02, 2017, 01:43:48 am
As someone with an outside perspective that has never participated in War, I agree that Sofree seems oddly designed with the aspect of it being instant damage with a bonus and a protective aspect to it as well. As far as banning it, I firmly believe you should've brought up a topic like that months ago. Not now that we're in the middle of War. This is far too complicated of a topic for it to be handled properly without some serious time and thought put into the answer.
I do think some Shards have a place in War. It should not be an all -or- nothing answer that is given. As far as which Shards have their place, I would trust Warmasters judgment on which are more akin to the power level and impact of pre-existing cards within the War format rather than my own thoughts on the matter.
I made a huge stink about it last war. Again mentioned to WMs. They felt that making it crazy expensive fixes the problem, and I said multiple times in the market prices thread that it doesn’t. Oh look, I was right.
Post by: Aves on November 02, 2017, 02:13:50 am
Post by: Vangelios on November 02, 2017, 02:21:01 am
2- However ban Sofree for this war to me is unfair because the rules and deck building are done, was already done ( I spoke this already and will repeat how many necessary)
3- Ban just ban sofree from the war I'm not favorable, if ban sofree ban all shards as well, but is very funy do it restrict, for example instead buy shards in the marketing place, do the relics like a token thats can be used like extra upgraded cards or for add shards in the deck
4- Marketing place is good, since it helps weak elements, in the case of light I think that miracles and sancs shold be more cheaper for sure, I like of free pillars too.
Aves you are correct even because a lot of good aether decks will be revelated if dont works well vs air can be VERY usefull against another teams
Lets try speak about shards after the war
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on November 02, 2017, 05:48:00 am
Post by: Vangelios on November 02, 2017, 06:22:40 am
For the record, I think banning SoFree mid war is about as tasteful as banning half Aethers decks in the first three rounds *cough* super EC *cough*. We are not actually expecting help with deckbuilding. We ask for a counter with the conviction that there is none. So any statement of having a counter that is not backed up by solid evidence will be dismissed as false by default.yours last deck was one type of counter just put quint instead PU one more druidic and one more FW
Post by: iancudorinmarian on November 02, 2017, 08:54:25 am
Quote
3- Ban just ban sofree from the war I'm not favorable, if ban sofree ban all shards as well, but is very funy do it restrict, for example instead buy shards in the marketing place, do the relics like a token thats can be used like extra upgraded cards or for add shards in the deck
I always find this pretty silly. That's like banning all weapons because Vagger and Discord are OP.
Post by: CactusKing on November 02, 2017, 09:05:39 am
...I think this probably the best idea so far, but perhaps instead of limiting the number per deck, the number or SoFre per round could be restricted? This could be extended to all shards if need be (say, max 6 in-element shards per round across all of a team's decks). The obvious drawback to this is that if a team plays their first match in the round with a shard deck then their later opponents know for certain that deck won't be played against them, but I see the impact of this as minimal because the opponent can't change their deck once battles start (bar the 3 cards in a sideboard).
Honestly, if Sofree were limited to say 3 per deck (maybe 4?), it would be beatable from an aether perspective, but I haven't tested this. Hell, even if sofree was actually banned, aether would still struggle against air because the element counters us in so many different ways. But if I can predict the deck that my opponent brings, I should be able to find a way to beat it. Whether I bring those cards to war or still have them in my vault is my own problem, and a necessary part of war.
Banning it for this war seems unfair to air, but next war I would be happy to see the best shards a little more restricted.
Post by: Vangelios on November 02, 2017, 09:56:40 am
I can understand your point, but shards always does one drama of the hell here, and so the matches have one better surprise factor, the teams need choose more wisly how to use you relics, and don't will be necessarary buy shards in the market.Quote3- Ban just ban sofree from the war I'm not favorable, if ban sofree ban all shards as well, but is very funy do it restrict, for example instead buy shards in the marketing place, do the relics like a token thats can be used like extra upgraded cards or for add shards in the deck
I always find this pretty silly. That's like banning all weapons because Vagger and Discord are OP.
Post by: ddevans96 on November 02, 2017, 10:13:52 am
Some showerthoughts, some very old and some brand new: Limit these power cards (and/or all shards), using boosts or event cards to create exceptions. Trade upgrades or relics for power cards (and/or all shards). After vaultbuilding, give teams that put less power cards (and/or all shards) in their vault some form of bonus.
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 02, 2017, 12:22:42 pm
Instead of simply banning SoFr, or any set of cards, why not develop a better system to restrict SoFr, SoPa, and then a handful of other cards (power cards) that are more stifling to the meta of War than any of the other 10 shards?Surely, sop doesn't need restriction in the same way. It's a strong card but is countered far more easily than sofree, is usable by all elements effectively and makes an incomplete weak element viable and much more rounded.
Some showerthoughts, some very old and some brand new: Limit these power cards (and/or all shards), using boosts or event cards to create exceptions. Trade upgrades or relics for power cards (and/or all shards). After vaultbuilding, give teams that put less power cards (and/or all shards) in their vault some form of bonus.
Post by: worldwideweb3 on November 02, 2017, 12:25:56 pm
Instead of simply banning SoFr, or any set of cards, why not develop a better system to restrict SoFr, SoPa, and then a handful of other cards (power cards) that are more stifling to the meta of War than any of the other 10 shards?Surely, sop doesn't need restriction in the same way. It's a strong card but is countered far more easily than sofree, is usable by all elements effectively and makes an incomplete weak element viable and much more rounded.
Some showerthoughts, some very old and some brand new: Limit these power cards (and/or all shards), using boosts or event cards to create exceptions. Trade upgrades or relics for power cards (and/or all shards). After vaultbuilding, give teams that put less power cards (and/or all shards) in their vault some form of bonus.
You only really see aether compaining about sofree. For some elements, its super easy to counter sofree than sopa.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on November 02, 2017, 12:26:16 pm
Stop comparing it to SoFr just to make it sound balanced, because it isn't.Instead of simply banning SoFr, or any set of cards, why not develop a better system to restrict SoFr, SoPa, and then a handful of other cards (power cards) that are more stifling to the meta of War than any of the other 10 shards?Surely, sop doesn't need restriction in the same way. It's a strong card but is countered far more easily than sofree, is usable by all elements effectively and makes an incomplete weak element viable and much more rounded.
Some showerthoughts, some very old and some brand new: Limit these power cards (and/or all shards), using boosts or event cards to create exceptions. Trade upgrades or relics for power cards (and/or all shards). After vaultbuilding, give teams that put less power cards (and/or all shards) in their vault some form of bonus.
Post by: Zawadx on November 02, 2017, 02:29:48 pm
I'm honestly surprised WMs haven't stepped in yet.
I was hoping to see more discussion into possible solutions for this problem, but people giving out deck codes is not acceptable in the middle of a war. I will lock this thread for now until I feel further discussion is merited.
If you have any ideas/decks which you feel might fit Aether's bill of 50% aether deck to defeat all sofree versions, feel free to send them to me. And if you wish to help out by testing, contact me as well. I have received a few promising ideas, will look into just how effective they are soon. But rest assured, no direct ban or usage restriction on Sofree will be added to the fundamental rules this war.
The reason I didn't outright ban sofree was that one war is a small sample size and another try with different vaults might fix this organically. In fact I considered all the complaints levied against SoFree and raised it's price extremely steeply as a nerf to air (the flaw there will be fixed shortly). Do note that Sofree has not been banned by this super ec (SoP has multiple times), which is a testament to the very limited domain of this problem. Any solutions will have to follow this.
Post by: Zawadx on February 06, 2018, 01:57:24 pm
Post by: Manuel on February 06, 2018, 10:00:02 pm
95 wins for air
4 wins for water
1 for life
if u ban sofree u are forced to ban sopa, if u ban ONLY sofree the next year someone will open a thread "petition: ban sopa" ; i think banning a card isn't fair at all, specially because air is strong even without it, water is nerfed a lot more without it
limit the copies/deck of these cards can be a start, IF THE NEXT WAR will be with 4 players/team
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on February 06, 2018, 11:38:23 pm
Salt levels are high against SoP only when it counters the opponent, salt levels against Sofree start before a game has been played. I think the fact that air are a strong, competitive element without sofree plays a part in this too.
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 07, 2018, 03:43:56 am
Post by: CactusKing on February 07, 2018, 06:00:00 am
Would just increasing the vault cost of it be enough to remedy things?That's what was done, and it didn't really solve anything
Post by: Vangelios on February 07, 2018, 07:05:02 am
Solved a bit, :air played sofree max 1 time by round instead 2 sofree decks.Would just increasing the vault cost of it be enough to remedy things?That's what was done, and it didn't really solve anything
but serious just increase the price to 600 points
Post by: iancudorinmarian on February 07, 2018, 08:52:24 am
cards. At this point, you're all blinded by SoFr that you're ignoring the other problem cards. Increasing the price until it's literally impossible to buy is no better than outright banning it.
And someone please remind JCJ that if a card (SoP) has a few counters doesn't mean it's balanced. (Example: dim shield)
I don't get why you all think that market has to solve all the problems. "Just make it cost 1000". Let's just make all cards cost 1000 and have a war with 60 pillar stalls.
PS: Yeah, I've been on the "ban SoFr" train before, but I've actually changed my mind once I've managed to find a better solution.
*unsigns petition*
Post by: Vangelios on February 07, 2018, 09:29:09 am
(just team :life was able beat sofree deck and even so we almost lose)
I don't like the idea of banning a card, we can create rules to limit some cards
The market you don't understant? well, was creted to reduce imbalance between strong and weak elements and worked because :life won war
off course with shards added, more upgraded and roles also helps :life a lot too, however a good team worth more than a lot of rules...