Merging War and Card Design War?

[TheIdioticIdiot]

wait...
is this the april fools day joke, or is it the war 3 cancel
or is it both...
or is it that SV is quitting war and I am replacing him?
or is it all three?
or is it..

GAHHH!!!

[Doichimaru]

I do not see this happen in a war I participate in.

Having card vault influenced by things beyond the control of a general is part of it, my "love" for card ideas is the other part.
A war is a bloodbath, duels and fighting, I do not see Card Design fit in here. If enough people enjoy it, have your fun, but I would not be participating. Propaganda is already a "meh" part to me, adding more non-dueling stuff will chase off war for people who like just that: duels.

War is war, not a designing contest. The two should be kept seperate. In other words, I agree with TheonlyrealBeef, but only to a certain extent.

[However, I would disagree with TheonlyrealBeef on propaganda being "meh," because propaganda is actually a vital tactic in war that serves many purposes (rally soldiers, discrediting the enemy so that others my join your side in the war, etc.), but that's just another issue.]

[ZephyrPhantom]

I do not see this happen in a war I participate in.

Having card vault influenced by things beyond the control of a general is part of it, my "love" for card ideas is the other part.
A war is a bloodbath, duels and fighting, I do not see Card Design fit in here. If enough people enjoy it, have your fun, but I would not be participating. Propaganda is already a "meh" part to me, adding more non-dueling stuff will chase off war for people who like just that: duels.

War is war, not a designing contest. The two should be kept seperate. In other words, I agree with TheonlyrealBeef, but only to a certain extent.

[However, I would disagree with TheonlyrealBeef on propaganda being "meh," because propaganda is actually a vital tactic in war that serves many purposes (rally soldiers, discrediting the enemy so that others my join your side in the war, etc.), but that's just another issue.]

So where do the supplies lines come from?
Who manufactures the supplies and equipment?
How are reinforcements transported from the homeland to the fight?
Who does all the work back at home base?

Is that not something support teams could be doing? In a sense the event cards could reflect the "support" being provided in terms from the "homeland" of the element, or other competitions could help to replenish a vault.

[Doichimaru]

I do not see this happen in a war I participate in.

Having card vault influenced by things beyond the control of a general is part of it, my "love" for card ideas is the other part.
A war is a bloodbath, duels and fighting, I do not see Card Design fit in here. If enough people enjoy it, have your fun, but I would not be participating. Propaganda is already a "meh" part to me, adding more non-dueling stuff will chase off war for people who like just that: duels.

War is war, not a designing contest. The two should be kept seperate. In other words, I agree with TheonlyrealBeef, but only to a certain extent.

[However, I would disagree with TheonlyrealBeef on propaganda being "meh," because propaganda is actually a vital tactic in war that serves many purposes (rally soldiers, discrediting the enemy so that others my join your side in the war, etc.), but that's just another issue.]

So where do the supplies lines come from?
Who manufactures the supplies and equipment?
How are reinforcements transported from the homeland to the fight?
Who does all the work back at home base?

Is that not something support teams could be doing? In a sense the event cards could reflect the "support" being provided in terms from the "homeland" of the element, or other competitions could help to replenish a vault.

Okay then Zblader, how in the world would these card designs be implemented in War? Would they only be used as War cards? Or is this just an art competition? If it's the latter, then I stand by my opinion. However, if in the case that the winner(s) would be able to somehow use their design, and turn it into a card that can only be used for that War, then that would be something that I would find interesting...

[ZephyrPhantom]

The event cards made should be used in War so that the winning support teams actually boosts their element.


From time to time, there could also be minor competitions like "if you win this, you get X cards in your vault" as well so that the support team isn't just off to the side most of the time.

[Doichimaru]

The event cards made should be used in War so that the winning support teams actually boosts their element.


From time to time, there could also be minor competitions like "if you win this, you get X cards in your vault" as well so that the support team isn't just off to the side most of the time.

Okay then... since you put it that way, I agree with you. [as far as the general concept is concerned.] If this were to be integrated into War #4 however, then the details would be a whole other issue.

[Scaredgirl]

I do not see this happen in a war I participate in.

Having card vault influenced by things beyond the control of a general is part of it, my "love" for card ideas is the other part.
A war is a bloodbath, duels and fighting, I do not see Card Design fit in here. If enough people enjoy it, have your fun, but I would not be participating. Propaganda is already a "meh" part to me, adding more non-dueling stuff will chase off war for people who like just that: duels.

War is war, not a designing contest. The two should be kept seperate. In other words, I agree with TheonlyrealBeef, but only to a certain extent.

[However, I would disagree with TheonlyrealBeef on propaganda being "meh," because propaganda is actually a vital tactic in war that serves many purposes (rally soldiers, discrediting the enemy so that others my join your side in the war, etc.), but that's just another issue.]

So where do the supplies lines come from?
Who manufactures the supplies and equipment?
How are reinforcements transported from the homeland to the fight?
Who does all the work back at home base?

Is that not something support teams could be doing? In a sense the event cards could reflect the "support" being provided in terms from the "homeland" of the element, or other competitions could help to replenish a vault.

Zblader is correct. Anyone with any kind of military background, knows the importance of supply lines in war. In fact, it's a common military strategy to disrupt enemy supply lines and in the process seriously limit their ability and moral to fight.

If we are worried about the theme of War, and how adding card designers etc. would somehow ruin the "glorious PvP battle", just look at real life war. Sure you have all the soldiers who do the actual battle, but you also have tons of people working in the background. Scientist for example, who develop new and better weapons.

If we did have a "Support Team" in War, they would basically be a team a scientist that help out the "Fighting Team". Instead of using brute force, they would use their brains (in a form of designing better cards etc.).

Having the best "Support Team" wouldn't mean you would automatically win War. It would only mean that you get a slight advantage over others when it comes time to fight, just like it is in real life.

[Doichimaru]

Oh I understand now SG, it was just that I didn't quite completely understand the concept as I had originally interpreted it, but now it makes complete sense. I already understand something about the military (although not first hand), being the brat of an ex-military man, I got to travel to different bases and learn plenty of things that were war related. Also, my apologies to ZBlader for the misunderstanding.

[TStar]

Interesting analogy SG, but not entirely correct.  Scientists develop new technology, but then rely on the military to find ways to utilize it to maximum effect.  As a scientist myself I can vouch that many of the products developed aren't used the way they were originally intended.

With that in mind if you really want to mimic reality then you need to have a system whereby new cards developed by the support personnel can be directly implemented into the war.  Giving a team a card advantage through existing mechanics serves only to create an imbalance in the actual fighting that is thematically not directly related to anything done by the support team.  Something as simple as having the support team design a new card each week that their team would be allowed to add to their vault as a "free" swap of up to 4/6/whatever total cards would make perfect sense.  This preserves the balance of the fighting but also allows for the "new" technology developed by the scientists to be implemented.  More importantly, it forces the designers to have a purpose for their cards that will be useful to their war teams current vault and strategies.  I can see this making the PvPers/Fighters and Designers/Scientists coming together to work towards a common purpose, which really is what creates the success in a war.  Having your support guys develop a new land mine when you are fighting naval battles really doesn't give any advantage, no matter how amazing and advanced that mine might be.  Somehow the cards developed need to have some direct tie to the cards and strategy of the war team, and that would best be shown through implementing the cards directly into the war.  Any other system of trying to force the two events into one and rewarding designs and ideas with free upgrades/more cards etc. is really just a poor attempt and forcing a synergy under existing conditions.

To summarize, until the infrastructure exists that would allow new card designs to be directly used in War decks I will be opposed to a system that tries to force these two completely unrelated concepts into one event.  If this infrastructure is developed however I would be very supportive of merging the two ideas.  This lets the Scientists develop the weapons, and the Soldiers to find ways to utilize them just like reality.  This is also the only true way to reward teams for having a purpose and vision for their war, instead of just designing a bunch of unrelated cards that really would be no use whatsoever to their team if they were real.

[Aitvaras]

TStar summerized all the thoughts I had while reading this.

However, the idea of a support team, and more players being able to participate, is totaly awesome ofcourse!

Within reason there are only a few things I could come up with for support team to do..
Design event cards, to be used in the war itself. (each team gets to design 1 event card. whoever wins the competetion gets to choose which event card is used which round.. or something like that.)
Make the Propaganda.
Actualy help with testing/making decks etc.

[Scaredgirl]

Interesting analogy SG, but not entirely correct.  Scientists develop new technology, but then rely on the military to find ways to utilize it to maximum effect.

You mean like the first atomic bombs that were not so powerful because of the scientists that developed them, but because of the clever military pilots who figured out they can use a bomber aircraft to drop them on their enemies?

Technology can give a huge advantage in war. You can test this by going to Africa and finding some lost tribe, then trading their bows and arrows to AK-47's and flame-throwers. After a month, that tribe will probably have wiped out all their enemies, and it had nothing to do with them being able to utilize those modern weapons to maximum effect. Then won because they have far superior military technology, it's as simple as that.

This is what the support team would basically do. They would provide their element with superior weapons to use in battle.

[E.l.f.]

I think merging war and card design is an awesome idea.
An interesting way to combine them could be to have a card designing round, and the winning card is made avaliable to the players participating in the war.