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Offline Amilir

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189072#msg189072
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2010, 02:07:59 am »
It is not that the card gave a huge advantage.  It is that the card gave a blatant advantage.  Which event card is best?

Light wins the war.
Light wins all matches this round.
Light wins one match this round.
Light gains x cards for their vault.
This one.

It doesn't matter!  They're ALL stupid!  ALL inject random chance into the event.  This one also injected some skill, but not enough to compensate.  The change in the metagame will never fully compensate.

War is serious.  Most teams are putting significant effort into playing well.  To make some elements get an advantage based on blind luck insults everyone that has pride in their effort.  We want less chance.  We want more skill.  Events like in the first round are harmless.  Events that force a change of strategy (that everyone can reasonably execute) are good.  Events that give a substantial advantage to a team for no skill get what we have seen.

The age cards are ridiculous.  The veil cards could wreck a team that didn't have the right vault.  Even the relatively harmless 'Depletion Victory' and 'Elemental Victory' would help some teams much more.  There isn't a debate here.  We can't play by rules we don't know.  We had to make our vaults without knowing what we might want.  Keeping the event cards secret was a mistake.  The community made a decision and got them removed.  It is OUR event.  We will play it as we see fit.

Offline Glitch

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189080#msg189080
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2010, 02:26:43 am »
I understand where SG was going with this, but I think there are some simple changes that should be made, and it would be fair.

1)  Those mark restrictions need to be optional, especially with the nature of pendulums in the war.
2)  Event cards need to be random.  By that I mean:  You don't get one every round.
3)  Those "age of" cards need to be called "last stand" cards.  They should be restricted to elements that are about to lose.  (I think this was the original intent, but it wasn't clear)
4)  More event cards need to be thought of.  Minus the element specific ones, you've only got 8 there.
5)  Like the bonus for stalling, there needs to be a bonus for stalling event card.

It's simply not fair that light, round 2, gets it's cards upgraded, when a war normally only lasts 8 or so rounds.  Most elements would never get to see their "age".

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189083#msg189083
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2010, 02:30:10 am »
It's simply not fair that light, round 2, gets it's cards upgraded, when a war normally only lasts 8 or so rounds.  Most elements would never get to see their "age".
Even better: if the cards were going to be used in the order they were shown, Darkness would have to wait until round 24 to see their "age."
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Offline Glitch

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189086#msg189086
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2010, 02:33:23 am »
That's why I say a last stand system would be better.

Round two?  Light card isn't fair.

But if light's had 30 cards for three war-rounds straight, then it'd be pretty damn awesome if that event was dropped, and well earned.

QuantumT

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189099#msg189099
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2010, 02:48:40 am »
3)  Those "age of" cards need to be called "last stand" cards.  They should be restricted to elements that are about to lose.  (I think this was the original intent, but it wasn't clear)
There's still some issue as to what you do if 2 teams are both about to lose. At that point you could double it up I suppose.

Offline Essence

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189235#msg189235
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2010, 07:16:46 am »
Yeah, at that point, make it a generic (i.e. Element-free) event card.

Last Stand
All teams with less than 60 cards in their vault may use up to 12 additional upgraded cards in their decks.


Like that.


On a side note, now that SG has politely removed herself from the War and put everything in the hands of the WarMasters:

Can we put the Event cards back?  We have one idea for the Age Of cards that seems to have some decent acceptance, so you don't even have to change the graphics or names, just the text and "shuffle the deck".  We should probably either alter or remove the Veils, though.
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QuantumT

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189238#msg189238
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2010, 07:22:54 am »
Yeah, at that point, make it a generic (i.e. Element-free) event card.

Last Stand
All teams with less than 60 cards in their vault may use up to 12 additional upgraded cards in their decks.


Like that.


On a side note, now that SG has politely removed herself from the War and put everything in the hands of the WarMasters:

Can we put the Event cards back?  We have one idea for the Age Of cards that seems to have some decent acceptance, so you don't even have to change the graphics or names, just the text and "shuffle the deck".  We should probably either alter or remove the Veils, though.
I'd be careful before I'd say that it had received acceptance. It was mostly just some of us in this thread that thought that. We can't really speak for everyone.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189257#msg189257
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2010, 08:01:03 am »
On a side note, now that SG has politely removed herself from the War and put everything in the hands of the WarMasters:

Can we put the Event cards back?  We have one idea for the Age Of cards that seems to have some decent acceptance, so you don't even have to change the graphics or names, just the text and "shuffle the deck".  We should probably either alter or remove the Veils, though.
This is the kind of discussion we should be having after the event.

Warmasters organize the event but don't have the power to rewrite the rules every time players feel they want a change. Rules for War #2 have been established and there will be no more changes to any of them unless we absolutely have to. This is why any kind of polls or discussion regarding Event Cards is pretty much pointless because Event Cards won't be included in War #2.

Offline Essence

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189262#msg189262
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2010, 08:08:21 am »
Noted.  Thanks.  :)
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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189285#msg189285
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2010, 09:06:34 am »
without meaning any kind of disrespect to SG and war organizers i have to say that i am glad that those event cards are gone...

it's clear that they put a LOT of work into those (the art is amazing) but the concepts are too far from my idea of strategy game i think Elements is...

the only ones i had saved were
- Flawless victory
- Elemental victory
- Reinfocements

that's it...


Scaredgirl

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189320#msg189320
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2010, 10:59:54 am »
I guess the best thing we could do now is to either design ~24 event card ideas that are not biased, or (if we want to keep event cards secret) at least organize a group of people who would design them. If I'm right, these event cards were designed by only Scaredgirl and the warmasters... I guess a bigger group would be necessary to spot and discuss fairness and balance.
The problem with this is that you don't see these people who are vocal here, stepping up when I asked for ideas for Event Cards. You don't see them stepping up when we looked for new Warmasters. Why? Because they don't want to spend their time doing volunteer work, they only want the fruit of other peoples labor because they feel they are somehow entitled to it.

It's very easy to just do your own thing and get a ready-made event handed to you on a silver platter, then deciding to sabotage it because you don't like the rules. But doing something productive by actually spending those countless hours in building these events as a volunteer, that's the hard part. The latter is something you won't see our resident complainers do. Ever.

For me personally, yesterday was the saddest day in the history of this community. Not because people didn't like the new Event Card, because those can always be fixed, but because of the highly disrespectful and wrong way many players decided to act on it. It was quite an eye-opener to me actually. In a matter of hours, I went from being very excited about War #2, to not even caring anymore, which is pretty sad.

I only hope that at some point, players would realize that having these kinds of Event Cards, while not particularly balanced because there is a luck element involved, would have made the event more fun by completely changing deckbuilding strategies for that round. The "Age" card of your element didn't get drawn? So what? It's the same principle of what happens when you lose because of a bad opening hand. Should we also change War rules so that if one person wins two coin tosses in a row, the latter match gets restarted? After all, that would be more fair, right?

People take games seriously and concentrate way too much on winning rather than the event being fun. Winning is of course important, but I don't think it means all events have to be like chess just to make sure that some players don't lose sleep over the event being "unfair". I think random events add spice to the event and help to turn the tides.

There seems to always be a lot of drama involved in these big events, which is why I'm starting to think that we should just get rid of them all, and only do tournaments and league. For example, WoE is another big project I'm currently working on, and I don't really want to waste hundreds on hours on it, only to just new see boycotts because players feel some rule is "unfair" in this luck based card game of ours.

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg189329#msg189329
« Reply #83 on: October 31, 2010, 11:18:49 am »
this has nothing to do with luck...
I may be unlucky if at a "Magic the Gathering" tournament I have to fight the best player in the world at the first round,
not if they decide that day that red cards can't be used while my deck is based on red cards...

I still don't understand who was disrespectful to you...
some people simply expressed their feelings about a newly created rule...
They (me) criticised the rule itself.. NOT the hard work and the FREE effort you put in making it...

you should not take it personal, because i think I am speaking for the whole community, Elements the game would never be as it is now WITHOUT people LIKE YOU.

 

anything
blarg: