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Offline Sir Valimont

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191323#msg191323
« Reply #180 on: November 02, 2010, 03:43:28 pm »
What do people think of this idea:

There were 54 matches in round 1. We should test every single match from round 1 ten times. Five times with one of the decks completely upgraded except for pillars, and five times with the other deck completely upgraded except for pillars.

Given that people built those decks without expecting the opponent to have upgraded cards, it would be an even more unfair advantage than the Age of Light card would have been in the normal game.

I am willing to bet that with this sort of testing, no more than five matches out of the entire 54 would have their outcome change from what actually happened (i.e. who won).

Offline Amilir

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191369#msg191369
« Reply #181 on: November 02, 2010, 04:46:42 pm »
"Who runs these events, the organizers, or the players?"

Well duh.  That's irrelevant though.  I can make statements too:  Who makes these events happen, the organizers or the players?  The players.  The organizers just set up an event, they can't make people play.  The players will make their own events if others don't.  Unofficial tournaments anyone?  The organizers run the event FOR the players, when properly done, as the players want.  Running an event in a way the players don't it to run is a deplorable act.  Waiting for the next time to change it may not an option when the event takes three months.

The players found a flaw in the rules and acted within their power to change it.  Does anyone really think the players would have boycotted if it was directly against the rules?  That's a silly assumption.  If it had been a veil card (which are just as bad if not worse) there would have been even more yelling and whining instead. 

We can work all we want, but it just doesn't matter if our vault doesn't have the cards to handle it.  It's not necessarily bad vault building either:  "The problem is that, at this rate, some team is going to lose because of something it couldn't possibly have known about when it was strategizing."  The reply?  "Some things, like Event Cards, are better left a secret until they happen."  Yep. 

War started as SG's brilliant idea, but it's now a community event.  It would happen without her.  Perhaps not as well, but someone would step up and run it.  As such, praise/blame for changes falls on SG's head.  Praise not as much, because there's always the question of whether we would have done something similar.  This time however, SG really messed up, in a way the community wouldn't have.  So she gets full blame for that and only partial credit for her other work.  It's not really fair, but with 'not fair' being a large part of the drama....  Luckily, it's fixed now.

I'm also completely baffled at SG thinking the community would want or even accept this.  People HATE luck.  They complain about the amount that already exists, but they can't do much about it.  Putting more luck into a prestigious event when it could be avoided is never going to get a positive reaction.  It doesn't matter if it's significant or not, except if the boost to skill involved is greater.  People DO assume that measures are going to be taken to maximize the amount of skill involved and minimize luck.  All major competitive tournaments do.  This is the biggest event in Elements.  Of course people expect the same.  That's all forgetting the problem of relatively new people and upped cards.  Our teams were set before we could know how important it might be for the members to be able to afford upped cards.

Oh and anytime anyone feels like pulling out that "it's just a game" argument again, try to remember that the super bowl is also "just a game".  Winning or losing does, in fact, matter to people.  Whether it should or not.

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191414#msg191414
« Reply #182 on: November 02, 2010, 06:20:22 pm »
So SG, you've mentioned the potential drama that would have occurred if one of the teams that won did so because it decided to use the Age cards while other teams didn't. I don't think there's really any doubt that this is at least somewhat true. There would have been drama about it.

However, wouldn't there also have been drama if one team had won specifically because it's age card came up? Say it's the finals. Team Fire vs. Team Air and the age of fire card comes up and Air proceeds to lose. I certainly would have felt cheated. It's just that now instead of

Quote
You only won because you used the OP Event Card!!
it would now be

Quote
You only won because you had the OP Event Card!!
Is there really that much difference?

I will allow that the reaction could have been better, but I don't think "the ignoring" would have caused anymore drama than the cards themselves would have.

Nume

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191415#msg191415
« Reply #183 on: November 02, 2010, 06:20:30 pm »
b) if I hadn't removed them, it would have led to a total disaster. Like I've said before, if some teams went with boycott and others didn't, how do you think it would have played out? If you don't take advantage of upped card when others do, the "unfairness" aspect of it would skyrocket. "You only won because you used the OP Event Card!!".
I'd just like to point out, that this exact situation wouldve happened with or without the boycott due to teams not taking the required elements in their vault. Teams would have ended up not being able to use any/many of the upped cards, and wouldve complained even more than now due to losing from it. I actually think the event cards as they are could work, but only if teams knew they were coming beforehand (not the order, just that cards like that) and starting vault sizes were increased by an amount large enough to make fielding some cards from all 12 elements plausible.

Offline Essence

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191516#msg191516
« Reply #184 on: November 02, 2010, 08:17:52 pm »
b) if I hadn't removed them, it would have led to a total disaster. Like I've said before, if some teams went with boycott and others didn't, how do you think it would have played out? If you don't take advantage of upped card when others do, the "unfairness" aspect of it would skyrocket. "You only won because you used the OP Event Card!!".
I'd just like to point out, that this exact situation wouldve happened with or without the boycott due to teams not taking the required elements in their vault.

This.  Nume has hit on EXACTLY the objection that every single person who hates the Age cards has to their existence.  All socio-philosophical questions about the nature of the relationship between an event organizer and the event's participants aside, the Age cards were outright BAD for the event because of the exact scenario that Nume described. 

I'll come back for more commentary on the aforementioned questions when I have more time. :)
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Offline Hyroen

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191859#msg191859
« Reply #185 on: November 03, 2010, 02:02:25 am »
Um... what happened to my "SOS: Event Cards" thread?
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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191863#msg191863
« Reply #186 on: November 03, 2010, 02:04:25 am »
Um... what happened to my "SOS: Event Cards" thread?
I think it was merged with the "suggestions and feedback" thread.

Offline Hyroen

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191872#msg191872
« Reply #187 on: November 03, 2010, 02:09:58 am »
Thanks Memorystick, not even the Warmaster knew the correct response to that question.

Shouldn't have been merged, that thread had a specific and sole purpose: Event Cards. Now they're just generalized as suggestions? *sigh*

Why does this always happen?

Kudos to you thread-merger, destroyer of worlds.
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Scaredgirl

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191968#msg191968
« Reply #188 on: November 03, 2010, 04:03:18 am »
Thanks Memorystick, not even the Warmaster knew the correct response to that question.

Shouldn't have been merged, that thread had a specific and sole purpose: Event Cards. Now they're just generalized as suggestions? *sigh*

Why does this always happen?

Kudos to you thread-merger, destroyer of worlds.
General Discussion is for discussions that don't have a better place. Everything that doesn't have a forum section for it, is labeled as "general". Everything that does have a place for it, should be posted there.

If you have feedback or suggestions about War, guess where you should post them? That's right, in the War Feedback and Suggestions topic.

This is how forums work.

Nume

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg191982#msg191982
« Reply #189 on: November 03, 2010, 04:16:12 am »
Thanks Memorystick, not even the Warmaster knew the correct response to that question.

Shouldn't have been merged, that thread had a specific and sole purpose: Event Cards. Now they're just generalized as suggestions? *sigh*

Why does this always happen?

Kudos to you thread-merger, destroyer of worlds.
General Discussion is for discussions that don't have a better place. Everything that doesn't have a forum section for it, is labeled as "general". Everything that does have a place for it, should be posted there.

If you have feedback or suggestions about War, guess where you should post them? That's right, in the War Feedback and Suggestions topic.

This is how forums work.
WHAT?!?!?! You mean to tell me that general discussion isnt the only section on the forums? (/sarcasm :P)

Offline Hyroen

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg192020#msg192020
« Reply #190 on: November 03, 2010, 05:28:33 am »
So there can't be a thread regarding Event Cards? They clearly deserve their own area of discussion as is now made clear.
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Offline Essence

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Re: Event Cards (removed from the event) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14874.msg192031#msg192031
« Reply #191 on: November 03, 2010, 05:55:46 am »
It would seem to me like this is the place to do it, seeing as the thread is named "Event Cards" and all.  ;)
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