Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Newbie Area => Tutorials => Topic started by: kev on June 13, 2011, 03:30:45 pm
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A little while ago an experienced, well known player asked chat which cards he should upgrade next. He'd built up some excess electrum and was looking for some versatile cards to spend it on. He told chat that he usually tried to stay below 2k electrum... which floored me. Newer players often ask either the same question or questions about when to sell cards, so I thought it'd be worth writing a post on the subject of money management.
First let me say that there's nothing wrong with however you want to invest your hard earned electrum. This game is for fun, and nobody should be able to tell you that buying a life-size stormtrooper replica is wrong if you really enjoy life-size stormtrooper replicas. But for players who want to accumulate wealth quickly there are two rules of thumb.
Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all. If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold. And the waste adds up quickly.
Why six and twelve? Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous. At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies. If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.
Selling cards is particularly heinous with rare cards that can’t be bought. If you sell your Tridents and tomorrow someone creates a new FG deck using the card, you simply can’t make the deck until you find more Tridents. That goes double for nymphs which can only be given by the Oracle or as rewards for Tournaments and Leagues. Resist the temptation. :)
Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth, you've now come into 9k, and you're considering upping six Flying Weapons because you think you'd like to play a Flying Titan deck down the road. If you upgrade them for 1500 each and then win upped Animate Weapons before you need them for your deck idea, you'll sell excess copies for 1157 each. Which means you've thrown 1500 - 1157 = 343 electrum in the garbage for each. And the waste adds up quickly.
A number of players buy all unupped non-rare cards as soon as possible. I agree it'd be nice not to have to click over to the bazaar whenever I'm missing a card I need but you have to recognize that you're paying a substantial convenience charge. For each unupped card you buy, later win, and sell the excess copy, you spent about 40% more for that card than you needed to. And the waste adds up quickly.
Another important reason not to upgrade cards without reason is that having electrum on hand gives you versatility if you suddenly need something. Put another way, if you have 45,000 electrum, you have enough dry powder to use any fully upgraded 30-card deck you'd like. By not upgrading cards you effectively have access to all upgraded cards should the need arise.
In conclusion too many players complain about FG grinding and then turn around and throw electrum away by buying, selling, and upgrading cards unnecessarily. Many veterans follow the above rules of thumb; I know of one who currently has 500,000 spare electrum and fewer unupped cards than upped cards. Follow the above rules of thumb to maximize your deckbuilding options.
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Great advice. Wish I had known this when I first started my FG grinding.
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Well i kept hold of that last farenheit at least. . .
suddenly i regret some of the things ive done in my rush to up my deck >_<'
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I bought all the unupped cards
It just feels so good, I can live with wasting some of that money
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Great advice, makes me feel glad I'm following it already :P
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Fun fact: by not following these rules I have wasted over 100k electrum. Yay me.
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Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
You might want to put this part in boldface and/or change the color, so the skimming noob doesn't go straight to the green points and then think that they're never supposed to sell cards.
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Buying all unupped cards (at least 6 of them) and then being able to try out new deck ideas without going to trainer is worth the cost I think, but only if you don't sell cards to get the money.
Also I think NOT SELLING RARES should really be emphasized and the KEEP 12 IN TOTAL be suggested for them seriously. Especially if T500 gets introduced. Even with T50 it took me a while to get back all the rares I sold to get a fully upped CCYB... Now it will be a lot harder for new players!
Otherwise I'm quite surprised how much I follow these rules by myself :D Great job writing it up.
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Nice work, kev. +rep
But you may want to add something about not selling nymphs for their dowry too. ;)
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Certain cards seem to build up while grinding level threes. Certain cards don't. After like a year of playing this game, I found out I had 0 firemasters for example. Pay attention to these things and don't feel bad about selling cards that do come up a lot, but hoard what doesn't come up a lot.
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Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all. If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold. And the waste adds up quickly.
Why six and twelve? Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous. At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies. If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.
So if I'm following this correctly, the main reason to keep 12 of each card (6 unupped and 6 upped) is in case of PVP Events and Tournaments? If so, then since I never play in those, I don't need 12 of each in total, just 6 of each card (unupped plus upped), right?
I'm soooo confoooosed!
Thanks,
LSK Piano
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So if I'm following this correctly, the main reason to keep 12 of each card (6 unupped and 6 upped) is in case of PVP Events and Tournaments? If so, then since I never play in those, I don't need 12 of each in total, just 6 of each card (unupped plus upped), right?
I'm soooo confoooosed!
Thanks,
LSK Piano
For some cards, the unupped version has advantages over the upped version. Nova is free while supernova costs 2 entropy quanta. Objectively supernova is a "better" card in the sense that it produces a net +22 quanta versus nova's 12, but there may still be cases where nova is preferable. Gnome gemfinder is free while gnome rider costs 1 quanta. Gnome gemfinder could mess with automulligan so may not be ideal in all decks with gnomes.
For a couple cards the upped and unupped versions are quite different. Toadfish/pufferfish, and chaos seed/chaos power.
For some other cards its pretty difficult to see any advantage whatsoever to the unupped version. I guess the extra light quanta from a ray of light versus a photon could give your opponent extra healing from a black hole but maybe this isn't a good reason to keep around photons.
Really you don't get much from selling the unupped cards so i would just keep them around anyways, but if you really want to squeeze out every last coin there are some unupped cards that you would probably never pick over the upped version unless you were playing in a constrained environment like a tournament or event which like you said you're never going to so you could probably sell those unless you think there's any chance you might change your mind somewhere down the road. Sorry for the run on sentence and good luck with your money management.
P.S.
Great guide kev. I follow almost all these rules myself but why do you need both
"a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder"
Can't you just get by with one or the other?
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Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all. If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold. And the waste adds up quickly.
Why six and twelve? Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous. At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies. If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.
So if I'm following this correctly, the main reason to keep 12 of each card (6 unupped and 6 upped) is in case of PVP Events and Tournaments? If so, then since I never play in those, I don't need 12 of each in total, just 6 of each card (unupped plus upped), right?
I'm soooo confoooosed!
Thanks,
LSK Piano
That may be true, seeing as you can only create decks with 6 copies of each card, whether it be upped or unupped. Be aware though, that there are several cards which function differently upped and unupped (pandemonium, mutation, fate egg, nova/supernova come to mind)
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So if I'm following this correctly, the main reason to keep 12 of each card (6 unupped and 6 upped) is in case of PVP Events and Tournaments? If so, then since I never play in those, I don't need 12 of each in total, just 6 of each card (unupped plus upped), right?
I think you're asking whether you need to keep unupped cards if you already have 6 upped cards. Others have pointed out that sometimes unupped cards are preferable, and that's definitely true. But there are plenty of other reasons to keep unupped cards lying around. Although you don't right now, you might one day want to enter a PvP Event, Tournament, League, etc. (Btw, I believe very strongly that I just listed the most fun parts of this game. If you haven't checked out that forum section (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,76.0.html) you really should.) Additionally you might want to play PvP1 at some point as a change of pace. You might need unupped cards for the new t500 system. You might want to play an unupped game against a friend or someone you meet in chat. You might want a backup copy in case of a bizarre bazaar misclick. You might need unupped cards for some crazy scheme zanzarino hasn't even thought up yet. And the list goes on.
Overall the electrum you get from selling copies over six isn't worth the opportunities that those copies afford you... in my opinion. But I wrote "Rule of Thumb" rather than "Rule" for good reason. If you're confident you'll never need unupped Fire Spirits then sell them. If it turns out you were wrong you can always play more and repurchase them. Not the end of the world. :)
why do you need both
"a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder"
Can't you just get by with one or the other?
Historically grinding AI3 has been the fastest way to increase score, grinding t50 has been the fastest way to accumulate rares, and grinding FGs has been the fastest way to accumulate electrum. You wouldn't want to grind AI3 or t50 with a deck designed for FGs nor would you want to grind FGs with a deck designed for AI3 or t50. You could certainly get by if you just had no interest in playing the FGs or something, but most players want the ability to grind for score, rares, or electrum and so it's been an important goal.
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Additionally you might want to play PvP1 at some point as a change of pace.
Pvp1 will automatically downgrade each card in your deck for the duration of the match.
Historically grinding AI3 has been the fastest way to increase score, grinding t50 has been the fastest way to accumulate rares, and grinding FGs has been the fastest way to accumulate electrum. You wouldn't want to grind AI3 or t50 with a deck designed for FGs nor would you want to grind FGs with a deck designed for AI3 or t50. You could certainly get by if you just had no interest in playing the FGs or something, but most players want the ability to grind for score, rares, or electrum and so it's been an important goal.
Makes sense. Thanks.
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I always followed these 2 rules. I have 190k electrum and Im missing still a lot of unupgraded cards. I usually buy the 1st copy of a card when its released (if I dont get it in some days), it helps to organize the collection. But then there is no need to rush. I dont have 12 Crusaders yet, for example, but the normal play vs AI3 will bring them to me in some time, like it did to Steam Machine, Pandemonium, etc. Some, however, I could think about buying. Reflective Shield and Azure Dragon I bought, for example, are still alone. Some of these cards you can get in AI2, but meh, this is lose more money than buying the cards :P
About upgrading, I have like 350 upped cards, and most of them were get from FGs. But its really good having money in hand. I decided to get a CCYB and just upgraded it. Now Im going to do the same to GotP Time, will spend 45k on it, but I can do it at the moment I want, so, yeah, money is good, better than cards you dont use :D
I would add a #3 rule: upgrading costs a lot, so, test the deck in the trainer before. When I was a noob, I got a Shrieker rush but I hated it, and I disliked having spent the electrum. Since them, I always try all the decks Im wanting to build in the trainer.
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Interesting, I´m constantly breaking the rules:
Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Partially agree. If a FG gives you a tower, the single tower upgrade is close to useless. There are also other upgrades, which are close to useless (e.g. Stone Skin).
Invested into another good card (e.g Supernova, RoL) or a better unupped card pool, the money is invested much better. My Rule of Thumb is: "Upgrade cards, not decks" because decks aren´t made for eternity and "The upgrade of a normal card is usually better than a tower upgrade" - maybe with the exception of Quantum Towers , they are by far the most used towers.
For practical reasons, I keep exactly 6 copies of all unupped bazaar cards (except pillars and pendulums) and sell them, if I have more.
Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
I see no reasons to keep too much money (although some thousands are good) on hand, because the money in the treasure chest does nothing. We have no bank, where "money can work". I think "necessary" means the upgrades you need so that the deck strategy can work.
I´d like to add a rule no 3.
Rule of Thumb No3:
Don´t sell nymphs and it´s better , not to upgrade them.
A sold nymph never comes back, nymphs make your account unique and upped nymphs can´t be used everywhere.
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Lol this is my worst problem. I have this urge to sell everything i dont need. but then i need it later. and re buy it. waste of money but cant help it
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This really does make a lot of sense in the big picture. I was keeping 3-4 unupped and selling the rest, including some rares for the elec. But I think now I'm going to switch to a hoarding mentality for awhile and boost the 30k I've got to a much higher number for who-knows-what later on.
...tex
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Fun fact: by not following these rules I have wasted over 100k electrum. Yay me.
I'm pretty sure I've got you beat by a factor of at least 5. :))
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Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
D'accord. So why is this thread located in the newbie area? It's a bit confusing for newbies.
At least I'd recommend to highlight this sentence and put it more prominent on the top.
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Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
- Well, here's where this falls apart fast. When you say 'never', it means something that should not ever be done. Then there's 'unless' and a vague condition that upgrading is necessary. How do I as a new player know what is necessary and worthwhile goals? For instance if I have grinding deck A and new evidence suggests that grinding deck B is actually better than A, should I then start upping B instead? It certainly makes sense, as the speed of electrum gain is what ultimately matters. What if someone discovers that Arena farming is actually better than other farms with some deck C? Should I now feel compelled to upgrade that deck or stick with original plan and farm cards until at last I have all cards upgraded?
Playing False Gods is like investing money. You get upgraded cards, which may not even be necessary in the current state of the game, but may prove useful in the future. AI3 and Arena farming is good for that solid cash in hand, which allows you to upgrade whatever is necessary. Your theory is correct from purely economical point of view: by never buying anything you're saving the most money.
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Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
- Well, here's where this falls apart fast. When you say 'never', it means something that should not ever be done. Then there's 'unless' and a vague condition that upgrading is necessary. How do I as a new player know what is necessary and worthwhile goals? For instance if I have grinding deck A and new evidence suggests that grinding deck B is actually better than A, should I then start upping B instead? It certainly makes sense, as the speed of electrum gain is what ultimately matters. What if someone discovers that Arena farming is actually better than other farms with some deck C? Should I now feel compelled to upgrade that deck or stick with original plan and farm cards until at last I have all cards upgraded?
Playing False Gods is like investing money. You get upgraded cards, which may not even be necessary in the current state of the game, but may prove useful in the future. AI3 and Arena farming is good for that solid cash in hand, which allows you to upgrade whatever is necessary. Your theory is correct from purely economical point of view: by never buying anything you're saving the most money.
I'm pretty sure the point is to not upgrade haphazardly, I would guess that FG farmers are on the necessary part.
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A little while ago an experienced, well known player asked chat which cards he should upgrade next. He'd built up some excess electrum and was looking for some versatile cards to spend it on. He told chat that he usually tried to stay below 2k electrum... which floored me. Newer players often ask either the same question or questions about when to sell cards, so I thought it'd be worth writing a post on the subject of money management.
I didn't read this topic untill now. Even though I wouldn't call myself a very well known, experienced player, that does sound an awfull lot like me :D
Somehow I'm a bit autistic since I can't stand any other number then 6 in my card list. Those Nymphs really bother me (pends and towers aren't somehow). So yeah I always sold every unupped card that got above 6, probably costed me quite some elec in the end.
I think that keeping these rules in the back of your head can at least prevent some unfortunate electrum losses. Especially for the newer players who don't have any decks/upped cards/electrum as backup. Well done Kev!
ps. there was a guy in chat yesterday who really should have read this first. I think he bought and sold entire decks (Rush be gone and Grabbix?) to build new ones and so forth.
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I understood most of this intuitively, but I never thought about the "you might win it later" part for upped cards. I upgrade way too aggressively.
I just now reached a new personal record of 14,000 electrum, but only because WAR is coming up and I want to have upgrade versatility. Were it not for that, I'd probably have spent it all on upgrades I don't need for decks that I want to "try out".
Thanks kevkev.
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My rule of thumb for upped is if it's not a rare or part of a upped FG deck then you can sell it if you want to upgrade a card.
As for unupped if you already can farm gods there is no point.
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As for unupped if you already can farm gods there is no point.
There is a point to unupped. Unupped cards allows you to enter more tournaments and PvP events than someone with 1 of every upped card but 0 of every unupped. He has to waste electrum by selling 2-3 of his upped cards just to buy a single deck of unupped while you already have unupped cards and have the electrum to pay to up the cards as well.
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I meant as selling unupped cards.
Also I don't see a problem in selling some upped cards to make a deck, it broadens your options even if its not optimized like upped ones.
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Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
Question on this: I just re-read it for the hundredth time and realized the rules of thumb don't apply until AFTER you get your fully upped AI3 deck and FG deck. Okay, that makes sense. But in the next sentence, what does "currently useless upgrades" mean? I just won my first upped card from AI4. Does it mean that if it's not useful in the AI3 and FG decks I'm working toward I should sell it? What about the 150 *unupped* cards I've won so far? Keep or sell? (Assuming they are not in the decks I'm working toward)?
Could someone please clarify this for me? (And yes, I've read through the whole thread and I still don't understand. Must be a little dense today, sorry.)
D Gately
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Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
Question on this: I just re-read it for the hundredth time and realized the rules of thumb don't apply until AFTER you get your fully upped AI3 deck and FG deck. Okay, that makes sense. But in the next sentence, what does "currently useless upgrades" mean? I just won my first upped card from AI4. Does it mean that if it's not useful in the AI3 and FG decks I'm working toward I should sell it? What about the 150 *unupped* cards I've won so far? Keep or sell? (Assuming they are not in the decks I'm working toward)?
Could someone please clarify this for me? (And yes, I've read through the whole thread and I still don't understand. Must be a little dense today, sorry.)
D Gately
Generally speaking, if you have an unupped AI3 farmer - which you won't ever sell - and an upped FG grinder - which again you shouldn't ever sell - you're going to rack up so much money in so little time that the rest of the guide will be more useful. The AI3 farmer is to get the money for the FG grinder and, more importantly, the money to start grinding (at first you'll lose even with the best grinders, since you don't know how to play it, and don't know your enemies: it's inevitable, and the AI3 farmer is there to provide the necessary backup for initial bankrupts).
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Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
Question on this: I just re-read it for the hundredth time and realized the rules of thumb don't apply until AFTER you get your fully upped AI3 deck and FG deck. Okay, that makes sense. But in the next sentence, what does "currently useless upgrades" mean? I just won my first upped card from AI4. Does it mean that if it's not useful in the AI3 and FG decks I'm working toward I should sell it? What about the 150 *unupped* cards I've won so far? Keep or sell? (Assuming they are not in the decks I'm working toward)?
Could someone please clarify this for me? (And yes, I've read through the whole thread and I still don't understand. Must be a little dense today, sorry.)
D Gately
It says you shouldn't mind selling your "currently useless upgrades" to make your fully upped AI3 and FG deck.
But now that you have upped those two,
"Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped)."
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It says you shouldn't mind selling your "currently useless upgrades" to make your fully upped AI3 and FG deck.
But now that you have upped those two,
"Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped)."
But I haven't upped those two yet. I'm just getting started. So two questions:
1. When first starting, should you sell all the cards you win except what you need for the AI3 and FG deck?
2. When you first start winning *upped* cards, should you sell them in order to upgrade the cards you need for the *upgraded* decks.
Generally speaking, if you have an unupped AI3 farmer - which you won't ever sell - and an upped FG grinder - which again you shouldn't ever sell - you're going to rack up so much money in so little time that the rest of the guide will be more useful. The AI3 farmer is to get the money for the FG grinder and, more importantly, the money to start grinding (at first you'll lose even with the best grinders, since you don't know how to play it, and don't know your enemies: it's inevitable, and the AI3 farmer is there to provide the necessary backup for initial bankrupts).
So you're not supposed to upgrade your AI3 farmer? That makes sense now that I think about it.
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It says you shouldn't mind selling your "currently useless upgrades" to make your fully upped AI3 and FG deck.
But now that you have upped those two,
"Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped)."
But I haven't upped those two yet. I'm just getting started. So two questions:
1. When first starting, should you sell all the cards you win except what you need for the AI3 and FG deck?
2. When you first start winning *upped* cards, should you sell them in order to upgrade the cards you need for the *upgraded* decks.
From my point of view, I would say yes to both
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I agree with sevs.
I specially recommand to quickly uppgrade 6 photon to make a ray of light/fractal/hope deck with only unupped cards. Then you can grind FG with it and gain lot of cards/money for other decks. when you have fully up this deck and an AI3 farmer or maybe even another FG farmer stop selling cards.
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But I should NEVER sell rares, right?
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I advise you to keep them yes, specially trident ! mornign glory can be selled you'll win a lot of them I think.
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I bought all the unupped cards
It just feels so good, I can live with wasting some of that money
my thoughts exactly
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This really helps our new members.
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Helpful stuff, I always just sold cards I won pretty much immediately. I'll start saving em and building towards having 6 upped and 6 unupped of every card now.
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I'm so thankful for this thread. I made a new account following the tips and I have 20,000+ electrum now.
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thanks
this is awesome
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Snap... Back in about 1.24 i had 6 nymphs..... I SOLD THEM ALL ^-^ ^-^ :(
EDIT: NVM not 1.24. Like 2 years ago.
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Gahhh I seem to be another guy that could have benefited from this earlier :'(
I remember selling all these rare weps. that I got from t50 because I was unable to resist the urge to get another deck, and just weeks ago I've been selling most of the cards that I got from fake gods ;;
Well at least we all know now.
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This helps me alot.
ive actually grinded AI3 quite alot lately, gaining quite the quantity of rare weapons, pharaos etc.
Its a nice top to keep hold of them, as they dont sell for much, but can be a pain to get later.
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Wow, good guide. I will definitely use this from now on and not just sell in order to make that few hundred extra electrum.
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I buy the cards needed for a deck, then sell em, then realize i need them again. this was like 1 month ago. I was tired of myself. :-\
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Good to know since I just started a few days ago. I just need to practice patience when trying to build up what I need for a farming deck. Thx.
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These tips are really useful, though I'd still advice new players to sell some cards they don't need if they want to make for example their first grinding deck. 'Cause it looks pretty simple:
Selling some cards -> Earning the electrum you need thanks to this [Losing some of electrum, but ONLY if you want to BUY these cards in the future] -> Building for example FG farming deck -> Earning more electrum + upped cards -> More and more electrum :3
Snap... Back in about 1.24 i had 6 nymphs..... I SOLD THEM ALL ^-^ ^-^ :(
EDIT: NVM not 1.24. Like 2 years ago.
Omgosh....Selling 6 Nymphs... :o -faints-
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Great help - just what I needed to read ;-)
:darkness :earth
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A little while ago an experienced, well known player asked chat which cards he should upgrade next. He'd built up some excess electrum and was looking for some versatile cards to spend it on. He told chat that he usually tried to stay below 2k electrum... which floored me. Newer players often ask either the same question or questions about when to sell cards, so I thought it'd be worth writing a post on the subject of money management.
First let me say that there's nothing wrong with however you want to invest your hard earned electrum. This game is for fun, and nobody should be able to tell you that buying a life-size stormtrooper replica is wrong if you really enjoy life-size stormtrooper replicas. But for players who want to accumulate wealth quickly there are two rules of thumb.
Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all. If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold. And the waste adds up quickly.
Why six and twelve? Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous. At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies. If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.
Selling cards is particularly heinous with rare cards that can’t be bought. If you sell your Tridents and tomorrow someone creates a new FG deck using the card, you simply can’t make the deck until you find more Tridents. That goes double for nymphs which can only be given by the Oracle or as rewards for Tournaments and Leagues. Resist the temptation. :)
Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth, you've now come into 9k, and you're considering upping six Flying Weapons because you think you'd like to play a Flying Titan deck down the road. If you upgrade them for 1500 each and then win upped Animate Weapons before you need them for your deck idea, you'll sell excess copies for 1157 each. Which means you've thrown 1500 - 1157 = 343 electrum in the garbage for each. And the waste adds up quickly.
A number of players buy all unupped non-rare cards as soon as possible. I agree it'd be nice not to have to click over to the bazaar whenever I'm missing a card I need but you have to recognize that you're paying a substantial convenience charge. For each unupped card you buy, later win, and sell the excess copy, you spent about 40% more for that card than you needed to. And the waste adds up quickly.
Another important reason not to upgrade cards without reason is that having electrum on hand gives you versatility if you suddenly need something. Put another way, if you have 45,000 electrum, you have enough dry powder to use any fully upgraded 30-card deck you'd like. By not upgrading cards you effectively have access to all upgraded cards should the need arise.
In conclusion too many players complain about FG grinding and then turn around and throw electrum away by buying, selling, and upgrading cards unnecessarily. Many veterans follow the above rules of thumb; I know of one who currently has 500,000 spare electrum and fewer unupped cards than upped cards. Follow the above rules of thumb to maximize your deckbuilding options.
I got 2 Upped Water cards from Halfblood.Tears and Lance.I am sure that I wont use'em.So,Can I sell them?
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First let me say that there's nothing wrong with however you want to invest your hard earned electrum. This game is for fun
Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies
I got 2 Upped Water cards from Halfblood.Tears and Lance.I am sure that I wont use'em.So,Can I sell them?
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You should definitely sell them if you are currently upgrading an FG farmer. The loss from bad bazaar prizes will be compensated by your higher grinding speed very quickly.
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I understood most of this intuitively, but I never thought about the "you might win it later" part for upped cards. I upgrade way too aggressively.
I just now reached a new personal record of 14,000 electrum, but only because WAR is coming up and I want to have upgrade versatility. Were it not for that, I'd probably have spent it all on upgrades I don't need for decks that I want to "try out".
Thanks kevkev.
Almost exactly my situation, AND I have another tip, adding on to what Kev said:
Unless your using the deck your upping to farm with at that exact time, don't start upping it until you can afford to fully up it. This means, even if your going to start farming with it game after next, and you only need to win 10 more electrum, don't even start on it yet, still a chance you can win one of the cards you need.
For example, started upping day traitors while using instosis. Finished upping Rol's for it, and next game I won one. Easy waste of 300-something electrum.
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Awesome guide to have. Next step: sell everything non-rare to build up an upgraded deck to grind with.
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ha false god grinding i cant even beat one!
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haha...this doen't matter to me now that i have good and consistent decks....i can easily farm it back though i keep in mind that i'll not let my electrums drop below 10,000 :)
but any new players should follow this as this is definitely a good advice
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thanks so much i have wasted so much money just because i never used too follow these rules
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I think i'm facing :electrum problems. I am lazy to farm nowadays, can i suggest elements be like Diablo 3 ??? enabling selling....of course, It doesn't mean that we get the real money but exchange it into electrums. I don't think i need 12 cards per rare and i often got more. By selling to memebers....more profitable than bazaar
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Can I just say thanks for this thread, I was breaking a number of the rules without realising the consequences. At least I wasn't selling rares.... thats just sacrilege!
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I like to say thanks to this thread I was so close to selling a nymph to upgrade one of my cards
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Very good advice indeed. Now my card pile keeps growing taller and taller. When i need something i usually don't have the need to vist the bazaar anymore õ/
Because of this the whole game became more exciting, everytime i want to try something different i just do! Its so awesome, thanks for this thread kev!
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Selling your first few newbie cards is fine right, if you just do it to finish up your first proper deck.
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Selling unupgraded cards is almost always fine, if you have a purpose for the electrum, if you're just stockpiling electrum, you shouldn't be selling any cards.
Protip: read the tip of the year (that's probably been there for many years)
"Tip of the year:
Your deck can have a minimum of 30 cards; manage your deck and customize it as soon as possible, get rid of some of the cards you do not like/use and sell them. This way you can instantly have a better deck and some coins."
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A little while ago an experienced, well known player asked chat which cards he should upgrade next. He'd built up some excess electrum and was looking for some versatile cards to spend it on. He told chat that he usually tried to stay below 2k electrum... which floored me. Newer players often ask either the same question or questions about when to sell cards, so I thought it'd be worth writing a post on the subject of money management.
First let me say that there's nothing wrong with however you want to invest your hard earned electrum. This game is for fun, and nobody should be able to tell you that buying a life-size stormtrooper replica is wrong if you really enjoy life-size stormtrooper replicas. But for players who want to accumulate wealth quickly there are two rules of thumb.
Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder. To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective. After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all. If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold. And the waste adds up quickly.
Why six and twelve? Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous. At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies. If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.
Selling cards is particularly heinous with rare cards that can’t be bought. If you sell your Tridents and tomorrow someone creates a new FG deck using the card, you simply can’t make the deck until you find more Tridents. That goes double for nymphs which can only be given by the Oracle or as rewards for Tournaments and Leagues. Resist the temptation. :)
Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth, you've now come into 9k, and you're considering upping six Flying Weapons because you think you'd like to play a Flying Titan deck down the road. If you upgrade them for 1500 each and then win upped Animate Weapons before you need them for your deck idea, you'll sell excess copies for 1157 each. Which means you've thrown 1500 - 1157 = 343 electrum in the garbage for each. And the waste adds up quickly.
A number of players buy all unupped non-rare cards as soon as possible. I agree it'd be nice not to have to click over to the bazaar whenever I'm missing a card I need but you have to recognize that you're paying a substantial convenience charge. For each unupped card you buy, later win, and sell the excess copy, you spent about 40% more for that card than you needed to. And the waste adds up quickly.
Another important reason not to upgrade cards without reason is that having electrum on hand gives you versatility if you suddenly need something. Put another way, if you have 45,000 electrum, you have enough dry powder to use any fully upgraded 30-card deck you'd like. By not upgrading cards you effectively have access to all upgraded cards should the need arise.
In conclusion too many players complain about FG grinding and then turn around and throw electrum away by buying, selling, and upgrading cards unnecessarily. Many veterans follow the above rules of thumb; I know of one who currently has 500,000 spare electrum and fewer unupped cards than upped cards. Follow the above rules of thumb to maximize your deckbuilding options.
I'll play for 6 month but I have much problems to get money. Beating level 3 make me only 17-20 coin and i can understand how to get 1500 coin
help me plz
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Start grinding arena or false gods for money.
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Until you have the card base to use, going for FG's or Arena (that's worth any $$) will not be worth it... Do some time in AI3 and you will gain cards and electrum. I constructed and Upped a RoL/Hope Deck from a few weeks of solid AI3 grinding... no need to hurry, enjoy the game and learn. Otherwise you're gonna be selling cards to construct a deck (unupped) that has a terrible win % and just get more frustrated...
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Until you have the card base to use, going for FG's or Arena (that's worth any $$) will not be worth it... Do some time in AI3 and you will gain cards and electrum. I constructed and Upped a RoL/Hope Deck from a few weeks of solid AI3 grinding... no need to hurry, enjoy the game and learn. Otherwise you're gonna be selling cards to construct a deck (unupped) that has a terrible win % and just get more frustrated...
really tnx, i'll try it. But, 1 other questions, what is AI3??
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really tnx, i'll try it. But, 1 other questions, what is AI3??
(http://i.imgur.com/spLNl.png)
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oh...tnx
U have 32k money omg
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and sorry, 1 other questions: how i can get Shard card?
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You can get shards and other rare cards in spins. AI3 will occasionally have rare weapons in their decks that you can win, but I don't think they have shards. The best way to get shards and rares is to make a deck capable of defeating bronze league.
If you JUST started playing though, your goal for now should be grinding AI3 for more cards and money, which you won't get a lot of in the bronze arena.
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tnx for patient =)
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As I told you on chat, thanks for this awesome tutorial, that helped me a lot.
Just one suggestion: when a player is on the "wealth accumulation phase", he should distinguish between cards winnable from FG's (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36752.msg461507.html#msg461507) and cards that you must upgrade.
For example, now I'm building instaghost, and I realized the only mean to obtain an upped mitosis or GoTP is actually upgrade it.
Then i upgraded them without regret.
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Thanks for this thread. Now I finally know what to do with my monies. Now I feel like I was wasting everything earlier D:
Time to grind so I can Scrooge McDuck my way out of AI3s.
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Thanks :D
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YES!!! ill save all my money for upgrades ahaha thnx for the info happy playing to all..
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i totally surport the idea of not selling cards until you have 12 copies of it in total, but i don't like the never buy or upgrade cards stuff.
i just like to try out some new ideas and change my deck from time to time, so i'm glad i have a lot of cards available to choose from.
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^I agree, OP really is exaggerated. You can - actually, you should - buy all the cards. The gold amount is ridicoulus, compared to what you're able to farm later on (and compared to what upgrading costs). The same goes for keeping unupgraded cards. 6 is enough.
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^I agree, OP really is exaggerated. You can - actually, you should - buy all the cards. The gold amount is ridicoulus, compared to what you're able to farm later on (and compared to what upgrading costs). The same goes for keeping unupgraded cards. 6 is enough.
If you're on the wealth accumulation phase, chances are that you're saving for an FG farmer and the like. OP may seem exaggerated, but, really; why buy all cards when you can save up and get the next big farmer to make the score and or electrum double? It's pretty much just wasting electrum. Buy what you need. The rest comes through spins, or when you need to buy it.
Keeping 12 un-upgraded is so we can upgrade 6 later on. Some cards don't come upgraded to us (from Spins), so it's better to keep what we find. After all, it's free. Why not.
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^
The basics are fine. Some of the details are disproportionate. That's all.
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depends on you i guess. if you are fine with a few decks, you won't have a problem saving all your coins.
i personally like to change my decks from time to time, so i need cards.
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Well the point is really this: If you don't need it, don't buy it.
The perfect scenario would be to make 1 arena grinder and 1 FG grinder (hell, they might even be the same deck), and just farm for the rest of your life until you get all of the cards/money you can. But that's obviously not going to happen. And hellfire's not going to rain down from the heavens if you decide to spend some cash on another deck, just to shake up the monotonous grinding.
Basically, just be smart with your money. And try to save up some of it in case you need it. I for one feel irresponsible if I go below ~45K electrum (which is a good money amount to stick around, as it means you could, at any given notice, fully upgrade a whole 30 card deck. I think Kev actually mentions this in the tutorial come to think of it..)
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Great help to start. I am starting to save cards.... and Electrums...
;)
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I bought all the unupped cards
It just feels so good, I can live with wasting some of that money
I did this too, twice :P
My account was recently reset after a glitch of some kind. I lost all of my cards (to the point where I was able to play with a zero-card deck), but Zanz (praise to thee!) gave me a Nymph of every element and the average gross earnings of a level 59 (my level at the time).
First thing I did was buy 6 of every card.
And wow is it expensive! Achieving this feat is somewhere in the cost-region of a fully upped 30-card deck (45,000), but it had to be done.
For anyone feeling bad about this right now, let me quote something else from the original post:
six and twelve?
Even if you proceed to pick up your 7th Flood (which let's be honest, you wouldn't have used anyway), that's fine because (let's be honest) you probably don't have 6 upped Floods anyway!
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I bought all the unupped cards
It just feels so good, I can live with wasting some of that money
I did this too, twice :P
My account was recently reset after a glitch of some kind. I lost all of my cards (to the point where I was able to play with a zero-card deck), but Zanz (praise to thee!) gave me a Nymph of every element and the average gross earnings of a level 59 (my level at the time).
First thing I did was buy 6 of every card.
And wow is it expensive! Achieving this feat is somewhere in the cost-region of a fully upped 30-card deck (45,000), but it had to be done.
For anyone feeling bad about this right now, let me quote something else from the original post:
six and twelve?
Even if you proceed to pick up your 7th Flood (which let's be honest, you wouldn't have used anyway), that's fine because (let's be honest) you probably don't have 6 upped Floods anyway!
I will say that I have used every card with 6 copies of it in my decks on my account. I've wasted lots of electrum. :P
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Time to grind so I can Scrooge McDuck my way out of AI3s.
There just isn't enough reference anymore these days to Scrooge McDuck ;D
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what a great guide ! I think that it is because i didn't follow rule number one i have :electrum problems
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Good guide. I can't imagine having over 2000 electrum for long - I up my cards as fast as possible. And i've only got 4 upped right now! It's hard to get the money - even if your silver arena deck is good!
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I have been folowing these rules before reading them here, because.. logic. Except that I don't keep unupped versions of an upgraded unless they have to be used/considered differently. (novas for example)